How to mod ZON files?

[trebby]

I am having a great time setting up SH5 again after a long absence.

Now I would like to modify the max diving depth of the various subs, based on reports in Clay Blairs 2 volumes on the Uboat war. (several instances boats survived because of DC or control failure, depths of 280meters.)

In SH3 you could use a little program by Timetraveller to alter this to a certain depth range with an random 5-10 pct difference to your input, so you newer knew exactly what it was. Loved it.

I tried to be smart, transplanted the SH5 ZON files to SH3, started the application, changed max depth, and copied it back again to SH5...

No avail, I obviously missed something.

Is there any not-overly-complicated-way to mess around with the ZON files?

Is the RSD mod involved, thereby complicating things?

Ah well, who doenst like it deep eh?


Cheers, Trebb.


NB. Presently using the ZON files of Vecko´s Steel Wolfes Megamod.

NB S3D and Goblin editor? Sounds gibberish...

[gap]

Hi Trebby I don't think mini tweaker will work on SH5 files. Among the "old" editors, S3d definitely opens them, but it can't handle some controllers which have changed format since SHIV. It can be used for tweaking the CollisionableObject controller though, which is where each unit's CrashDepth is set.

Should you want to used Goblin Editor instead, you should:

• set it up, if it is the first time you use it:
  http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...39&postcount=1
  http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=366
  http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...44&postcount=1
  
  
• open an U-boat GR2 file (it can take a few seconds for it to do it);
  
  
• merge its zon file in the project (menu file => merge);
  
  
• from there, everything should be quite intuitive. Once you finish with your changes, right click on the zon file in the project tree (should be highlighted in red by now, meaning that there are unsaved changes), and select save

A couple of additional remarks:

Besides the CrashDepth setting in zon files, there is also a similar line in submarine's cfg file. Dunno which one of the two is applied (maybe the two are combined together);

IIRC, there seem to be a consistent discrepancy between the crash depth set in zon/cfg file and actual crash depth measured in game.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by gap

IIRC, there seem to be a consistent discrepancy between the crash depth set in zon/cfg file and actual crash depth measured in game.

That's because the sh5.exe randomizes the crush depth. One of the factors in the randomization is the amount of hull damage the sub has. Even if their is no hull damage the exe will randomize the crush depth.

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

That's because the sh5.exe randomizes the crush depth. One of the factors in the randomization is the amount of hull damage the sub has. Even if their is no hull damage the exe will randomize the crush depth.

nice

[gap]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

That's because the sh5.exe randomizes the crush depth. One of the factors in the randomization is the amount of hull damage the sub has. Even if their is no hull damage the exe will randomize the crush depth.

good

Any idea on how cfg file depth settings are used in game?

[trebby]

Thanks guys, for this expert advice!

Gotta love this community

Got something to sink my teeth in after I get rid of a jetlag.

This SH5exe randomizer is great for keeping suspense then...
Finding maxdepth should cost dearly in damage, finding crush depth....
..well crush u

Originally Posted by gap

good

Any idea on how cfg file depth settings are used in game?

To my limited knowledge, in SH3 the CFG file maxdepth entry had to be stretched to 500m to allow the sub ingame to dive beyond about 280m or so.

Cheers, Trebb

[TheDarkWraith]

I'm fairly certain the cfg file defines the max depth at which the sub CAN start taking damage. It overrides the .sim file's max depth.

The exe then uses this max depth and randomizes it to get the actual crush depth.

[Blindside]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

That's because the sh5.exe randomizes the crush depth. One of the factors in the randomization is the amount of hull damage the sub has. Even if their is no hull damage the exe will randomize the crush depth.

In the randomization of the crush depth would this remain based on the original depth or on any depth that has been altered?

[trebby]

Originally Posted by Blindside

In the randomization of the crush depth would this remain based on the original depth or on any depth that has been altered?

Blindside, if you mean with original depth the depth as per vanilla, I would say that any randomization will be based on the new, modded, depth.

So far, I found any variations made by SH5exe hardly noticeable.

Final word by TDW...

Trebb.

[trebby]

A. On using the Goblin clarification question:

Gap said:

Should you want to used Goblin Editor instead, you should:
set it up, if it is the first time you use it:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...39&postcount=1
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=366
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...44&postcount=1

• open an U-boat GR2 file (it can take a few seconds for it to do it);
• merge its zon file in the project (menu file => merge);

Ahh, this last line confuses me.
"Merging" meaning something like
"melting together" , so I feel like activating both the CFG and the ZON file, getting\creating an integrated view of both files?

So far, I activated them separately (by clicking on CFG or ZON file), because the goblin allows one file to be selected, before creating a window to apply any changes.

So:
Does "merging" mean selecting in goblin, via flile-merge, first CFG, modifiying it, and then via file-merge, separately ZON and modifiying it successively?




B. Motivation on Messing with depth values:

1. After WW2, as an Experiment, the allies investigated by means of surrendered uboat the results of deep depth\crushing. They "dived" (unmanned) a uboat(s), attached with sensors, and looked what happened.
They found out that the crushing Point of the boat was an sudden and violent Implosion, sounding like an Explosion to the Monitoring vessels....
Exactly as reported during the war as "underwater explosions" or "exploding torpedoes", after some time a succesful attack was launched. (At the site of the loss of Priens U47 amongst others...) These men met their maker in a terrible, but fast way.

2. Several instances the boats severely overdived, as described in Clay Blairs 2 Volumes: (Original text Bilge rat)

"On march 11, 1943, U-432, a veteran VIIc on its 8th war patrol but w. a green skipper sank a merchantman. Incredibly, instead of taking evasive action, the boat stayed at periscope depth and the officers broke out champagne to celebrate...

...When the corvette Aconit carried out a standard sweep, it was also surprised to find U-432 still at PD.

Aconit dropped 10 DCs which caused extensive damage to U-432 and drove it down to 1,000 feet (307 meters). This depth "...so terrified all hands.." that the skip decided to surface at which point it was quickly sunk by the escorts. There were 20 survivors."

What I would like to do, and I think is already partly implemented with some mods, is:

a. Slowly increasing damage as Fittings ect give way first, leading to flooding (containable for some time) but no serious Equipment/hull damage. Allowing for survival IF b. is not reached...

b. Parallel and Independent, at best randomized (By SH5exe?) crush depth value. Reaching this will cause sudden death (Implosion).

I think the present depths are too conservative on that....
and realize that for changing it I have to do it myself so...


Any suggestions?

Trebb.

[trebby]

Hang on Gap...

After Messing some more, I think the answer to my A/merging question is:

"Yes dummy, now the ZON and SIM files are listed in a common Frame, on op of each other and ready to be edited"

Thanks, trebb .


Hopefully, the ZON and SIM files are the only variables to be considered

[gap]

Originally Posted by trebby

"Merging" meaning something like
"melting together" , so I feel like activating both the CFG and the ZON file, getting\creating an integrated view of both files?

...

Does "merging" mean selecting in goblin, via flile-merge, first CFG, modifiying it, and then via file-merge, separately ZON and modifiying it successively?

In the context of Goblin editing, "merging" means opening a dat or GR2 file (which can contain 3d or dummy models, as well as particle FX), and loading on top any other dat/GR2 or binary file (sim, dsd, val, zon, etc.) pointing to the first file loaded, or that the first file loaded is pointing to.

The first file must be loaded through the menu file => load, whereas any other file is "merged" through file => merge. Id/parent Id references among the files loaded in memory are sorted by Goblin Editor automatically, and displayed in the Project Tree. By double clicking on any controller visible in the Project Tree, you recall the Property Editor, used for tweaking controllers' property settings. Should you see there any field whose content is tagged as 'UNKNOWN', it means that the relative property is set to an Id that couldn't be found among the files loaded/merged in memory.

Refer to The Complete Idiots Guide to Goblin Editor for a visual example of the features I have descibed above.

Originally Posted by trebby

So far, I activated them separately (by clicking on CFG or ZON file), because the goblin allows one file to be selected, before creating a window to apply any changes.

You can't merge cfg, ini, upc, etc. files, because they are unformatted text files (use notepad for opening them). Only GR2 files and files with a binary encoding can be handled by Goblin.

Originally Posted by trebby

What I would like to do, and I think is already partly implemented with some mods, is:

a. Slowly increasing damage as Fittings ect give way first, leading to flooding (containable for some time) but no serious Equipment/hull damage. Allowing for survival IF b. is not reached...

b. Parallel and Independent, at best randomized (By SH5exe?) crush depth value. Reaching this will cause sudden death (Implosion).

I think the present depths are too conservative on that....
and realize that for changing it I have to do it myself so...

Good plan

Originally Posted by trebby

Any suggestions?

Trebb.

yes, a few of them:

1. going by what TDW has recently stated on the topic, crash depths stored in each sub's cfg files override the analogue zon file settings.

2. you can make single systems to take damage/fail at certain depths, independently from u-boat hull's main crush depth. This is done through the 'Crash Depth' property of each system's damage zone (Zones.cfg). In stock game, not every zone has a 'Crash Depth' line, but you can add it manually and it will be correctly applied in game (with some randomness added), as tested a while back by vdr1981.

3. most of the features you are suggesting are already (at least partly) implemented in Reworked Submarine Damage, or they would meddle with it anyway. Before you go on, I suggest you getting in touch with vdr1981, and agreeing with him upon any change his mod might require to meet your ideas. In my opinion, expanding RSD with the features you are suggesting, would be preferable to having two interdependent mods, one of which would become obsolete every time the other is updated. If you have followed the chronic debate about mod compatibility in SH5, you know what I mean

[trebby]

OK Gap,

I will contact Vecko and see if (based on historical data) he can be interested on finetuning the max depth/damage values.
The Beauty of his mod is the relative accessibility/simplicity, indeed nobody Needs another mod if ist just a variant.(if I ever manage it)

I changed all CFG SIM ZON files as also TDW mentioned, but did not manage to be able to "cruize" at 204plus meter without taking serious damage.

I set all to 500m (exaggerated even if some multiplicator is considered, but ist to notice a difference) and still got:

1. Hydrophone damage, then inop at about 100m.(?)
2. 204m: press hull damage and flooding and Torpedo Computer damage.
3. Hull integrety loss from 360m, till 100 pct.
4. Death Screen at 460m. (shortly after hull integrety at 100 pct)

Maybe I have to Change the depth in which the different Systems fail as well, via 'Crash Depth' property.
I will take a Long and good look at your Explanation above Gap, and yes I did check all your links before, just a bit thick in the skull

Trebb.

Originally Posted by trebby

In SH3 you could use a little program by Timetraveller to alter this to a certain depth range with an random 5-10 pct difference to your input, so you newer knew exactly what it was.

TT's programs and S3D can be used if the controlling files are edited.
They just don't open GR2 files. I still use both by editing the controller files.
TT's stuff uses hex values to change things.
S3D has a C# file you edit to work with SH5.


Then 010 Hex Editor has a C type language you can code to work the same files.

010 was the Tool used to start decodeing GR2 files so it's not a whimp tool.

[trebby]

Vids like this aaagh.



It can obviously be done.

Goblin no joy yet... will try further.


Privateer are u saying S3D/TT can do this?

As I descibed in my Initial post, I used TT by copying the files to SH3 and back.
Is there a way to do TT directly for SH5?

Trebb