NSA 'debates' amnesty for Snowden

Jimbuna · 12-16-13, 02:00 PM

I'm a little surprised...is it possible they are in fear of what they know he has yet to leak?

Quote:

A top NSA official has raised the possibility of an amnesty for fugitive intelligence contractor Edward Snowden if he agrees to stop leaking documents.

The man in charge of assessing the leaks' damage, Richard Ledgett, said he could be open to an amnesty deal.

Disclosures by the former intelligence worker have revealed the extent of the NSA's spying activity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25399345

Gerald · 12-16-13, 02:16 PM

You have a point in what you say, it is feared that he will leak more, eventually he will probably want to go home to the U.S.

soopaman2 · 12-16-13, 02:21 PM

Not a big fan of the man, amnesty?

Too late, he already gave the Russians everything.

Sorry, let him stay there.
I do not even want him, as long as he can never come back, if he does we hang him. Hopefully botch it like the Saddam hanging.

I find people who join our military, then betray the public trust despicable.

No matter what he supposedly exposed that is the definition of a traitor, working against our troops.

I am so happy China, and Russia coveted him, he is surely not telling them anything right? You nieve sympathetics?

I am sure he is there for free, with no info, and I am sure they did not look at his laptops, nope. America is evil, king evil, the great satan, we made the euro fail, and we killed the prophet muhammed.! No other country would do that!

Jimbuna · 12-16-13, 02:28 PM

Ah, righteo then.

Ducimus · 12-16-13, 02:32 PM

Personally, I'd love to see the entire NSA apparatus as it currently exists in its overbearing and unconstitutional form, dismantled; utterly, and entirely.

Wolferz · 12-16-13, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Personally, I'd love to see the entire NSA apparatus as it currently exists in its overbearing and unconstitutional form, dismantled; utterly, and entirely.

+1

TarJak · 12-16-13, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Not a big fan of the man, amnesty?

Too late, he already gave the Russians everything.

Sorry, let him stay there.
I do not even want him, as long as he can never come back, if he does we hang him. Hopefully botch it like the Saddam hanging.

I find people who join our military, then betray the public trust despicable.

No matter what he supposedly exposed that is the definition of a traitor, working against our troops.

I am so happy China, and Russia coveted him, he is surely not telling them anything right? You nieve sympathetics?

I am sure he is there for free, with no info, and I am sure they did not look at his laptops, nope. America is evil, king evil, the great satan, we made the euro fail, and we killed the prophet muhammed.! No other country would do that!

Been at the Hamm's again?

Snowden was never part of the military. He was employed by a contractor to which analysis had been outsourced. If you are going to rant do so factually.

mapuc · 12-16-13, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendor

You have a point in what you say, it is feared that he will leak more, eventually he will probably want to go home to the U.S.

Thanks to Snowden, Sweden are facing an upcoming diplomatic crisis with Russia and a domestic crisis

What it looks like is that the FRA-law could have been as a result of influence of external political powers( According to the Swedish news)

Markus

Gerald · 12-16-13, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Thanks to Snowden, Sweden are facing an upcoming diplomatic crisis with Russia and a domestic crisis

What it looks like is that the FRA-law could have been as a result of influence of external political powers( According to the Swedish news)

Markus

Not that I have any direct insight into the operations of the FRA, so get the information, not surprisingly, with a collaboration between US-SWE,given Sweden's position on the map, and co-existing signal reconnaissance goes far back in time, during WWII was is a constant activity within the organization which was then called B-Agency in Sweden.

Jimbuna · 12-16-13, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Thanks to Snowden, Sweden are facing an upcoming diplomatic crisis with Russia and a domestic crisis

What it looks like is that the FRA-law could have been as a result of influence of external political powers( According to the Swedish news)

Markus

Sweden?

Really?

Skybird · 12-16-13, 04:11 PM

Snowden said some months ago he joined the NSA for the mere purpose of getting those infos, I recall from reading several articles at that time. That makes him not a traitor, but an infiltrator.

The benefit of having revealed the huge amount of illegal actions and criminal acts as well as having started a debate about the green and red lights of total surveillance societies, outweighs by far any argument about the legality of his action.

German news this evening has headlines that an American judge has said the total NSA telephone surveillance "most likely" is a massive violation of American laws, and that legal challenges to the NSA have very good chances of success.

What is to be learned here: Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Never trust states, governments, government services. Democratic ideas about controlling these monsters, is an illusion. Especially in the US, intel and military are secret societies in themselves, are states within the state without any legitimation by the electorate (which Americans usually are so keen to point at).

Between the need for self defense by military and intel services, and the need for transparency and counter-controlling the power of such institutions, I see a gap or contradiction that becomes the wider and more unbridgable the more technology advances. That maybe points at a fundamental dilemma we are drowning in sooner or later, because the less we can "grade" the balance between needed secrecy and transparency, the more we only have the absolute choice between total transparency and defenselessness, or total control by the state and maximum security. The slider between these two poles seem to disappear, getting replaced with a simple two-way flipping switch.

And that is extremely dangerous and can lead to wars, as European history has shown many times.

That the whole system is corrupted beyond repair by business lobbyism and cheating politicians, does not make it any better, of course.

With each year passing by, I think more intensely that breakdown and collapse not only is unavoidable, but is highly desirable - to flush all the dirt and decadence away and make room for building new - maybe. It'S a small chance only. Chance that the dirtiness of the other global players will ruin us in our rubble, is greater. So maybe even that is no way out, but will just relaunch the same old story that has been told since eons now, again and again, and again. In perceiving the reality around me, I asm realistic. But in assessing the ability of man to change the fundamental moral and intellectual premises of his acting , I have become very pessimistic. History illustrates the endless repetition of the same mistakes over and over again, all too often. And the dualistic view of life, the two-sided nature of the coin that human life is, maybe even do not allow lasting and final, correct solutions to the existential dilemmas that crush us time and again. Sisyphos on my mind.

mapuc · 12-16-13, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Sweden?

Really?

Here's a story you may not know

in the early night time on 29th of Mars, a group of 6 Russian fighter planes conduct a series of bomb-training just outside the Swedish border. The Swedes reacted slowly and when their JAS 39 arrived the Russian plane was heading home

it turned out that they trained attack on the FRA Institution

FRA means Defense Radio Institute. in other words SIGINT.

Markus

Jimbuna · 12-16-13, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Here's a story you may not know

in the early night time on 29th of Mars, a group of 6 Russian fighter planes conduct a series of bomb-training just outside the Swedish border. The Swedes reacted slowly and when their JAS 39 arrived the Russian plane was heading home

it turned out that they trained attack on the FRA Institution

FRA means Defense Radio Institute. in other words SIGINT.

Markus

Your quite correct, I wasn't aware....but when was the last time Sweden was on a war footing/alert?

Gerald · 12-16-13, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Your quite correct, I wasn't aware....but when was the last time Sweden was on a war footing/alert?

1981

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_S-363

Jimbuna · 12-16-13, 05:19 PM

Crumbs on the table in the overall context of historical warfare me thinks.

12-16-13, 02:16 PM	#2
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	You have a point in what you say, it is feared that he will leak more, eventually he will probably want to go home to the U.S. __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

12-16-13, 02:21 PM	#3
soopaman2 Der Alte Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 3,316 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Not a big fan of the man, amnesty? Too late, he already gave the Russians everything. Sorry, let him stay there. I do not even want him, as long as he can never come back, if he does we hang him. Hopefully botch it like the Saddam hanging. I find people who join our military, then betray the public trust despicable. No matter what he supposedly exposed that is the definition of a traitor, working against our troops. I am so happy China, and Russia coveted him, he is surely not telling them anything right? You nieve sympathetics? I am sure he is there for free, with no info, and I am sure they did not look at his laptops, nope. America is evil, king evil, the great satan, we made the euro fail, and we killed the prophet muhammed.! No other country would do that! __________________ If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. -Winston Churchill- The most fascinating man in the world.

12-16-13, 02:28 PM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,461 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Ah, righteo then. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

12-16-13, 04:11 PM	#11
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Snowden said some months ago he joined the NSA for the mere purpose of getting those infos, I recall from reading several articles at that time. That makes him not a traitor, but an infiltrator. The benefit of having revealed the huge amount of illegal actions and criminal acts as well as having started a debate about the green and red lights of total surveillance societies, outweighs by far any argument about the legality of his action. German news this evening has headlines that an American judge has said the total NSA telephone surveillance "most likely" is a massive violation of American laws, and that legal challenges to the NSA have very good chances of success. What is to be learned here: Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Never trust states, governments, government services. Democratic ideas about controlling these monsters, is an illusion. Especially in the US, intel and military are secret societies in themselves, are states within the state without any legitimation by the electorate (which Americans usually are so keen to point at). Between the need for self defense by military and intel services, and the need for transparency and counter-controlling the power of such institutions, I see a gap or contradiction that becomes the wider and more unbridgable the more technology advances. That maybe points at a fundamental dilemma we are drowning in sooner or later, because the less we can "grade" the balance between needed secrecy and transparency, the more we only have the absolute choice between total transparency and defenselessness, or total control by the state and maximum security. The slider between these two poles seem to disappear, getting replaced with a simple two-way flipping switch. And that is extremely dangerous and can lead to wars, as European history has shown many times. That the whole system is corrupted beyond repair by business lobbyism and cheating politicians, does not make it any better, of course. With each year passing by, I think more intensely that breakdown and collapse not only is unavoidable, but is highly desirable - to flush all the dirt and decadence away and make room for building new - maybe. It'S a small chance only. Chance that the dirtiness of the other global players will ruin us in our rubble, is greater. So maybe even that is no way out, but will just relaunch the same old story that has been told since eons now, again and again, and again. In perceiving the reality around me, I asm realistic. But in assessing the ability of man to change the fundamental moral and intellectual premises of his acting , I have become very pessimistic. History illustrates the endless repetition of the same mistakes over and over again, all too often. And the dualistic view of life, the two-sided nature of the coin that human life is, maybe even do not allow lasting and final, correct solutions to the existential dilemmas that crush us time and again. Sisyphos on my mind. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-16-13, 05:19 PM	#15
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,461 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Crumbs on the table in the overall context of historical warfare me thinks. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

12-16-13, 02:32 PM	#5
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Personally, I'd love to see the entire NSA apparatus as it currently exists in its overbearing and unconstitutional form, dismantled; utterly, and entirely.