SH4 Hydrophone firing solution with US Boats?

Yamato_NF · 12-01-13, 02:16 PM

sorry if this has been posted before, but i am looking for a tutorial on a way to find a firing solution with the hydrophone,
I cant for the life of me get a torpedo to connect with the target...

if it helps, im using OTC.
I am just getting into manual targeting too.

Yamato_NF

Bothersome · 12-01-13, 09:45 PM

There was a purely hydrophone targeting method posted in the SH4 section on SubSim several years ago. I don't have it book marked or anything. A search might turn up something.

Basically, it involved taking 4 bearings and precise time intervals and drawing a straight line through those bearings that would be equally spaced. That is IF the ship didn't change course and didn't change speed.

I've pulled off many a torpedo shots in heavy fog and rain. But I used the radar to get the target's heading and speed. I use a method of distance traveled / elapsed seconds * 1.8 = knots.

Then I would line up on a 90 degree perpendicular to the targets heading and set up my TDC computer for the distance, AoB, and speed settings to cross at either 225 or 45 depending if it's coming in from my port or starboard side. I would engage the TDC computer at the time the sonar reading crossed my preset bearing. In fact I tend to use this method even on clear days because I don't want to take a chance on the enemy spotting my periscope. Then I'd simply open doors and fire after. Of course I already had the depth and speed of the torpedoes already set by then. If you're only about 1000 yards away from the targets path, you just about can't miss.

The US side is very tough to set up for multiple targets, unlike the German U-Boat side.

Sorry I couldn't be more help for the full sonar method though.

Yamato_NF · 12-01-13, 11:47 PM

Thanks, ive seen the Dick O'Kane method (after a lengthy search on google...)
and that seems like an excellent option, mainly because range doesnt matter! Any idea how i would go about attacking a convoy with sonar?

I ask because i have tried the O'Kane method on lone ships; i even got a hit on a Destroyer at 8.5nm! but i have yet to find a convoy...

Moonlight · 12-02-13, 06:49 AM

Have a look at HalfjackHJ's video tutorial about sonar only attacks if you haven't seen them.
Manual Torpedo Targeting with Sonar (SH4)

Manual Torpedo Targeting with Sonar (SH4), part 2

Yamato_NF · 12-02-13, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlight

Have a look at HalfjackHJ's video tutorial about sonar only attacks if you haven't seen them.
Manual Torpedo Targeting with Sonar (SH4)

Manual Torpedo Targeting with Sonar (SH4), part 2

I Tried these, but they do not show how to attack convoys with only sonar...

Bothersome · 12-03-13, 01:55 PM

I think what you're asking for may be too much. But after giving it some thought. This is how I would go about doing a convoy...

First let's assume a small convoy of 4 merchants or target vessels in a 2 x 2 arrangement. And lets also say there are 6 escorts in a hex guard pattern.

Let's say the convoy is traversing from right to left. I'd be set up on a 90 degree O'Kane attack shot. I would have all my torps aligned to fire straight ahead. Preferably using electric torpedoes as I do NOT want any bubbles to point my location. This means I need to be at about 3000 yards from the path of the furthest merchant or target ship as it crosses in front of me.

Using a pre-timed method of getting their speed and heading I find the bearing that my periscope needs to be aimed at to make the torpedoes fire straight ahead. Say about 19 degrees bearing for an 11 knots target speed. I'd set my depth of torpedoes to about 10 feet. And since I'm using electrics, if they happen to run under an escort, they should be none the wiser.

Once the firing solution is set up, I would then go to sonar and set my sonar bearing to 19 degrees. As I heard my targets cross the 19 degree bearing, I'd let loose the fish. Only the first two targets would have any likely chance of a hit in this scenario though because as soon as the first ship is hit, they will know they are under attack and the latter ships will start to slow and serpentine probably causing a miss.

One alternative is to use gas powered torpedoes for the last two ships set on high, but you'd have to recalc the bearing for their crossing and move your hydrophone on that new bearing for the last shots on the last two ships. But then you'll give up your location if you do that.

Firing on convoys using hydrophone only is probably reaching a bit giving the technology we have at our disposal.

Someone else may have a better solution.

TorpX · 12-03-13, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamato_NF

sorry if this has been posted before, but i am looking for a tutorial on a way to find a firing solution with the hydrophone,
I cant for the life of me get a torpedo to connect with the target...

The real-life skippers couldn't either. That's why the US Navy very quickly gave up on the idea, and why there isn't that much interest in pursuing it here.

Of course, the game sonar works better than it did in RL, so it is possible to get hits, but is still going about things the hard way.

merc4ulfate · 12-05-13, 03:41 PM

I have tried and succeeded at doing it. Your hit rate is fairly low, at least mine was, but It really isn't all that hard to set up. Yes there is a gap for errors that ships sail through but it is possible.

You know the speed of the fish so with sonar your taking a guess at range. You calculate how long the fish will travel at its top speed. You then need to turn the boat or scope so your leading the target enough that when the time is up the fish hit.

If your getting updates on your map simply watch it and mark the course, draw a line and set where you want the fish to hit and then make sure you fire so the two coincide.

I normally set my scope at zero and never touch it. I change the angle by steering the course so I am lined up with where the ship will be after the elapsed time past the firing point. I fire a spread and normally get one out of four hits but sometimes even two.

It is much easier with cuties.

Pisces · 12-13-13, 04:02 PM

Some names to search for to learn about the 4 bearing hydrophone method:
Nefelodam, Kuikueg or Mittelwaechter, Stoianm. But expand your search for all forums of SH3, 4 and 5.

It doesn't matter what game version you use, as they work in all of them. But you do need a mod that get's you an easy to see compass scale attached to your mouse cursor. Or else drawing on the map might get tricky.

This tool also gets you atleast onto his general course:

http://ricojansen.nl/downloads/3BearingAOBfinder.pdf

You can also use it to confirm your drawing techniques in the methods of the mentioned gentlemen.

BillBam · 12-13-13, 10:45 PM

Werner Sobe had a Sonar Only video out, Rockin Robbins has a link to it in his sticky but the link goes to a page that requires login info so I assume the old video link is dead.

12-01-13, 02:16 PM	#1
Yamato_NF King of the Ocean Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Michigan, United States Posts: 337 Downloads: 621 Uploads: 0	SH4 Hydrophone firing solution with US Boats? sorry if this has been posted before, but i am looking for a tutorial on a way to find a firing solution with the hydrophone, I cant for the life of me get a torpedo to connect with the target... if it helps, im using OTC. I am just getting into manual targeting too. Yamato_NF __________________ Proud owner of SH3/4/5 Proud owner of the DCS series "He who controls the seas controls the world."

12-01-13, 11:47 PM	#3
Yamato_NF King of the Ocean Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Michigan, United States Posts: 337 Downloads: 621 Uploads: 0	thanks! One more question: Thanks, ive seen the Dick O'Kane method (after a lengthy search on google...) and that seems like an excellent option, mainly because range doesnt matter! Any idea how i would go about attacking a convoy with sonar? I ask because i have tried the O'Kane method on lone ships; i even got a hit on a Destroyer at 8.5nm! but i have yet to find a convoy... __________________ Proud owner of SH3/4/5 Proud owner of the DCS series "He who controls the seas controls the world." Last edited by Yamato_NF; 12-01-13 at 11:48 PM. Reason: Typo

12-13-13, 10:45 PM	#10
BillBam Watch Officer Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Yuba/Sutter, CA Posts: 347 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Werner Sobe had a Sonar Only video out, Rockin Robbins has a link to it in his sticky but the link goes to a page that requires login info so I assume the old video link is dead. __________________

12-01-13, 09:45 PM	#2
Bothersome Planesman Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 194 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	There was a purely hydrophone targeting method posted in the SH4 section on SubSim several years ago. I don't have it book marked or anything. A search might turn up something. Basically, it involved taking 4 bearings and precise time intervals and drawing a straight line through those bearings that would be equally spaced. That is IF the ship didn't change course and didn't change speed. I've pulled off many a torpedo shots in heavy fog and rain. But I used the radar to get the target's heading and speed. I use a method of distance traveled / elapsed seconds * 1.8 = knots. Then I would line up on a 90 degree perpendicular to the targets heading and set up my TDC computer for the distance, AoB, and speed settings to cross at either 225 or 45 depending if it's coming in from my port or starboard side. I would engage the TDC computer at the time the sonar reading crossed my preset bearing. In fact I tend to use this method even on clear days because I don't want to take a chance on the enemy spotting my periscope. Then I'd simply open doors and fire after. Of course I already had the depth and speed of the torpedoes already set by then. If you're only about 1000 yards away from the targets path, you just about can't miss. The US side is very tough to set up for multiple targets, unlike the German U-Boat side. Sorry I couldn't be more help for the full sonar method though.

12-02-13, 06:49 AM	#4
Moonlight Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Fookhall Copse Posts: 2,518 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 0	Have a look at HalfjackHJ's video tutorial about sonar only attacks if you haven't seen them. Manual Torpedo Targeting with Sonar (SH4) Manual Torpedo Targeting with Sonar (SH4), part 2

12-03-13, 01:55 PM	#6
Bothersome Planesman Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 194 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	I think what you're asking for may be too much. But after giving it some thought. This is how I would go about doing a convoy... First let's assume a small convoy of 4 merchants or target vessels in a 2 x 2 arrangement. And lets also say there are 6 escorts in a hex guard pattern. Let's say the convoy is traversing from right to left. I'd be set up on a 90 degree O'Kane attack shot. I would have all my torps aligned to fire straight ahead. Preferably using electric torpedoes as I do NOT want any bubbles to point my location. This means I need to be at about 3000 yards from the path of the furthest merchant or target ship as it crosses in front of me. Using a pre-timed method of getting their speed and heading I find the bearing that my periscope needs to be aimed at to make the torpedoes fire straight ahead. Say about 19 degrees bearing for an 11 knots target speed. I'd set my depth of torpedoes to about 10 feet. And since I'm using electrics, if they happen to run under an escort, they should be none the wiser. Once the firing solution is set up, I would then go to sonar and set my sonar bearing to 19 degrees. As I heard my targets cross the 19 degree bearing, I'd let loose the fish. Only the first two targets would have any likely chance of a hit in this scenario though because as soon as the first ship is hit, they will know they are under attack and the latter ships will start to slow and serpentine probably causing a miss. One alternative is to use gas powered torpedoes for the last two ships set on high, but you'd have to recalc the bearing for their crossing and move your hydrophone on that new bearing for the last shots on the last two ships. But then you'll give up your location if you do that. Firing on convoys using hydrophone only is probably reaching a bit giving the technology we have at our disposal. Someone else may have a better solution.

12-05-13, 03:41 PM	#8
merc4ulfate DILLIGAF Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: florida Posts: 2,058 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 0	I have tried and succeeded at doing it. Your hit rate is fairly low, at least mine was, but It really isn't all that hard to set up. Yes there is a gap for errors that ships sail through but it is possible. You know the speed of the fish so with sonar your taking a guess at range. You calculate how long the fish will travel at its top speed. You then need to turn the boat or scope so your leading the target enough that when the time is up the fish hit. If your getting updates on your map simply watch it and mark the course, draw a line and set where you want the fish to hit and then make sure you fire so the two coincide. I normally set my scope at zero and never touch it. I change the angle by steering the course so I am lined up with where the ship will be after the elapsed time past the firing point. I fire a spread and normally get one out of four hits but sometimes even two. It is much easier with cuties.

12-13-13, 04:02 PM	#9
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Some names to search for to learn about the 4 bearing hydrophone method: Nefelodam, Kuikueg or Mittelwaechter, Stoianm. But expand your search for all forums of SH3, 4 and 5. It doesn't matter what game version you use, as they work in all of them. But you do need a mod that get's you an easy to see compass scale attached to your mouse cursor. Or else drawing on the map might get tricky. This tool also gets you atleast onto his general course: http://ricojansen.nl/downloads/3BearingAOBfinder.pdf You can also use it to confirm your drawing techniques in the methods of the mentioned gentlemen.