seeking Info about torpedo loading procedures in a VIIC

[wahchewie]

Hi all; I'm curious after messing around in SHV for a bit, about how torpedos were loaded in a uboat.

I'm sure many history buffs will know, so thought i'd ask.

In particular, i was wondering which particular part of it was so time consuming (approx 25 minutes to load a tube, yes??)

And also I've noticed in SHV anyway, the crewmen spend a great deal of time "polishing' the sides of the torpedo before it goes in the hatch... any insights to this?

Thanks!

[Platapus]

Welcome aboard!!

The most time consuming part was the physical moving of the torpedo from its storage location into the tube.

I would imagine that the polishing you saw was the application of a lubricant.

I hear that lube helps when shoving something big and long into an opening just that size......I would not know anything about that myself, but I read it on the Internets Tubes.

[u crank]

Welcome to SubSim wahchewie

Originally Posted by Platapus

I hear that lube helps when shoving something big and long into an opening just that size......I would not know anything about that myself, but I read it on the Internets Tubes.

[wahchewie]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I hear that lube helps when shoving something big and long into an opening just that size......I would not know anything about that myself, but I read it on the Internets Tubes.

I would have Thought Rear admiral would be more experienced with the subject bahaha!

Thanks for the welcome; I've actually been lurking here on/off for almost a decade since SHIII came out; but suddenly got curious into the specifics of how they loaded these damn things.

Basically the info i've found is that it was tedious and difficult; and winches were involved; but have found few specifics about how they did it; especially in battle conditions.

I have no doubt how dangerous the torps were as well- even without the detonator ( T1 powered by Decalin which produces explosive gas when exposed to air ) and being that the bloody things weighed 1.5 tonnes it must have been a nightmare.

The fact they had to grease em for them to fit in the tubes is news to me, sounds like an inefficient design; i wonder if they still do this today.

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD!

Originally Posted by wahchewie

Basically the info i've found is that it was tedious and difficult; and winches were involved; but have found few specifics about how they did it; especially in battle conditions.

Das Boot gives a pretty good representation of torpedo loading from the inthernal cradles to the tube. Unfortunately the constraints of even a 5-hour movie keep the entire procedure from being shown. Everything was done by hand.

I have no doubt how dangerous the torps were as well- even without the detonator ( T1 powered by Decalin which produces explosive gas when exposed to air ) and being that the bloody things weighed 1.5 tonnes it must have been a nightmare.

This is one thing that so far has been left out of all the games. Procedure was to fire all tubes then dive deep to reload. Reloading was never done until the boat was safely away from all potential counter-attacks. A sudden steep dive angle could result in a torpedo breaking free of its chains and crushing hapless sailors, and possibly even punching a hole in the boat, which would not be a good thing. Games usually have torpedoes being reloaded automatically, no matter what the situation.

The fact they had to grease em for them to fit in the tubes is news to me, sounds like an inefficient design; i wonder if they still do this today.

If the tube is much more than a millimeter or two wider than the fish itself, windage becomes a problem. This means that the torpedo can leave the tube crooked, even if only by a tiny bit, which will throw it off its intended path. Gyro angles correct the travel based on the angle the fish leaves the tube, so if its initial path is off the gyro can't correct for that. Also even if the torpedo is floating inside the flooded tube there is a good chance the sides will come into contact. The grease is vital to smooth operation. As to whether they do it today, I have no idea.

[ETR3(SS)]

Nope don't lubricate the torpedoes anymore. A Mk 48 goes into the tube dry.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

WELCOME ABOARD!





If the tube is much more than a millimeter or two wider than the fish itself, windage becomes a problem. This means that the torpedo can leave the tube crooked, even if only by a tiny bit, which will throw it off its intended path. Gyro angles correct the travel based on the angle the fish leaves the tube, so if its initial path is off the gyro can't correct for that. Also even if the torpedo is floating inside the flooded tube there is a good chance the sides will come into contact. The grease is vital to smooth operation. As to whether they do it today, I have no idea.

AT LAST someone who uses the technical term 'windage' correctly- the gap between the round and the inside of the barrel or tube as in this case, and not, as often happens, used to describe a crosswind at the target end. AS with a patched ball in a Hawkins mountain rifle, the heavy grease settles the eel in the tube to reduce the movement caused by the windage and as the eels had to be constantly serviced and reinserted into the tubes (batteries and later high tech sound eels), greasing was a constant chore. Kudos Sailor Steve!

[wahchewie]

ahh; thanks for the info;

So they couldn't really reload the tubes during an engagement. That's interesting, I'll bear this in mind next time I'm trying to eyeball the next destroyer that comes after me.

I found a further tidbit about the external reserves; that they were potentially dangerous to the sub in that they'd crack and fill with water, putting the sub in danger of being too heavy to surface; so they were not used later on in the war.

Thanks for the info all.

& ETR3; what changed for modern torps that they don't need maintenance? I suppose the trailing control wires remove the windage/ gyro angle issue since they can just be put back on course by the operator.

[sublynx]

What Sailor Steve said is very true. It still doesn't mean that the U-boats didn't sometimes take the risk anyways. Here's an excerpt from U - 100's 2nd war patrol:

23.25 Torpedo fired from torpedo tube IV: G7e, relative bearing to target 90°, target speed 8 knots, depth 3 meters, distance 600 meters. The reason for the miss is unknown. Most likely due to Eto malfunction. While we are heading into the convoy a destroyer or gunboat passes us at high speed and is proceeding to our firing position.

23.41 Bright and clear, moon behind clouds shining through in places NW 2, Sea 1-2, light swells We are now in the middle of row 2 of the convoy, close behind row 1. Lots of steamers in front, beside and behind us. Closest distance is 500 to 600 meters. Steamers are now beginning to get closer to each other so our freedom of movement is restricted. There were about 8 to 10 ships in a row. During the whole time torpedoes were reloaded. At about 24.00 hours 3 tubes are ready to fire.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTB100-2.htm

This is how Schepke managed to sink 7 ships from a convoy in 3 hours. I still think the restrictions Sailor Steve told about should be modded into the game so we would have to pay the price if we get caught with our pants down - I mean torpedoes being shoved into the tubes.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by wahchewie

& ETR3; what changed for modern torps that they don't need maintenance? I suppose the trailing control wires remove the windage/ gyro angle issue since they can just be put back on course by the operator.

A better fit would be the best answer, however on the Seawolf class the torpedo tubes are 650mm. This allows for a "silent" launching via the torpedo leaving the tube under its own power at a lower velocity. But if the guidance wire is still attached then course corrections can be made.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by wahchewie

I would have Thought Rear admiral would be more experienced with the subject bahaha!

Oh Oh Oh Slammed by the new guy right out of the gate. And a direct hit too.

You will fit in well here, sir.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

AT LAST someone who uses the technical term 'windage' correctly- the gap between the round and the inside of the barrel or tube as in this case, and not, as often happens, used to describe a crosswind at the target end. ... Kudos Sailor Steve!

While definitely well earned kudos to Steve for using "A" definition of windage correctly, Windage does have other definitions more inline with the more common usage.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/windage

Windage is correctly used to describe a crosswind adjustment for shooting.

It is not unusual for words to have completely different definitions depending on the context.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Platapus

While definitely well earned kudos to Steve for using "A" definition of windage correctly, Windage does have other definitions more inline with the more common usage.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/windage

Windage is correctly used to describe a crosswind adjustment for shooting.

It is not unusual for words to have completely different definitions depending on the context.

Denotative vs colloquial or connotative meaning?

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Oh Oh Oh Slammed by the new guy right out of the gate. And a direct hit too.

You will fit in well here, sir.

I believe I have been plagarized!( You ain't a rear admiral fer nuthin') Welcome aboard Wahchewie...imitation IS a sincere form of flattery!

[Jimbuna]

LOL