Surface Attacks

[Clean Sweep]

When I'm running on the surface to attack a merchant ship, naturally I have the deck gun manned and prepares to fire. The merchant opens up on me with machine gun fire and this begins the duel. However, even with general quarters the guys on my 40mm or 20mm do not engage the merchant. I've put them on fire at will and nothing. Am I forgetting another step or are the 20 and 40 mike mikes only able to target aerial enemies?

I'm running the latest TMO mod.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Clean Sweep

When I'm running on the surface to attack a merchant ship, naturally I have the deck gun manned and prepares to fire. The merchant opens up on me with machine gun fire and this begins the duel. However, even with general quarters the guys on my 40mm or 20mm do not engage the merchant. I've put them on fire at will and nothing. Am I forgetting another step or are the 20 and 40 mike mikes only able to target aerial enemies?

I'm running the latest TMO mod.

Unfortunately the AA guns were made to do just that, only shoot at planes, the deck gun only shoots at surface targets.To get the 40 MM and 20 mm to shoot at surface targets, you will have to man them yourself. I am pretty sure this is hardcoded or no doubt it would have been fixed by now.Absolutely drives me crazy sometimes the oversights of the devs on things like this that even modders cant fix

[Clean Sweep]

This is the first thing in the game that's mildly irritated me. I don't mind manning the MGs or AAs but I'd much rather let my crew do it while I focused on maneuvering and torpedoes. Seems like it's an unnecessary bit of micro-managing. I don't think many sub skippers took to the 20mm and went all Rambo with it.

[Armistead]

Be nice if they did. If I have a lot of damage and can time it, I'll come up and use the AA guns to shoot the depth charge racks off escorts, that's one thing they will blow up. Then I can dive and not worry about being charged.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Clean Sweep

This is the first thing in the game that's mildly irritated me. I don't mind manning the MGs or AAs but I'd much rather let my crew do it while I focused on maneuvering and torpedoes. Seems like it's an unnecessary bit of micro-managing. I don't think many sub skippers took to the 20mm and went all Rambo with it.

Oh it's absolutely ridiculous, no idea why they would not make them multi purpose.The good news is the 40 MM will do some damage to most smaller ships but do have to operate it.I prefer to use the 40 on fishing boats, junks etc over the deck gun, seems to work quicker, guess the he rounds do the job.Also great, if in a pinch, for taking out topside on escorts, ive disabled escorts with 40 mm and 20 mm before, strafing gun crews and like armistead mentioned, depth charge racks, enabling me to escape.Once I mustve killed everyone topside because i strafed the bridge and the deck guns with 20 mm and few 40 mm, they were coming in to ram i moved, they just kept sailing right passed me, didnt fire anymore or anything, just kept sailing in straight line.Reminded me of the USS Salmon's patrol in October 1944, they surfaced after a terrible depth charge attack, strafed a CD ship as it came along to ram, killed and injured everyone topside, enabled salmon to escape. Definitely a risk esp in TMO

[joefremont]

I find that annoying also. I have found the 40mm to be a great weapon even against larger merchants. There have been more than a few occasions where I ordered the crew to engage one merchant with the deck gun while I engage the other with the 40mm and usually I finish first. Historically sub commanders used the AA guns mostly on surface targets and dove rather than engage aircraft on the surface.

There should be an option for the AA gunners to shoot at a surface target.

On the other hand using SH3 and U-Boat missions, the german AA guns are useless against even small boats.

[Clean Sweep]

I think when I return from my current patrol I'm going to replace the forward 20mm with a 40 and just use two 40mm against merchants by sweeping the decks. The 20mm does good against a liferaft and nothing more. I usually dive at first contact from planes anyway. Not worth losing my guys over one plane.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Clean Sweep

I think when I return from my current patrol I'm going to replace the forward 20mm with a 40 and just use two 40mm against merchants by sweeping the decks. The 20mm does good against a liferaft and nothing more. I usually dive at first contact from planes anyway. Not worth losing my guys over one plane.

I recollect dimly that JFK mounted a 40 on PT109. Von Clausewitz puts it succinctly in his treatise-ON WAR: "Whenever possible, increase firepower" Required reading at the military academies again after Nam.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

I recollect dimly that JFK mounted a 40 on PT109.

Actually it was a 37mm anti-tank gun. The original armament on the Elco 80-footer was two pair of .50 calibres in twin mounts and a 20mm at the stern. Many skippers tried different combinations, and by the end of the war the standard armament from the factory moved the 20mm from the stern to the bow, replacing it with a 40mm.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I am pretty sure this is hardcoded or no doubt it would have been fixed by now.

I don't know about that could just be nobody ever cared enough to work on it since surface fighting is such a rarely used part of the game by most players.

I don't recall anyone EVER trying to get all guns to defend against surface targets so until someone says its hard coded I wouldn't say it cant be done.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Webster

I don't know about that could just be nobody ever cared enough to work on it since surface fighting is such a rarely used part of the game by most players.

I don't recall anyone EVER trying to get all guns to defend against surface targets so until someone says its hard coded I wouldn't say it cant be done.

Hmm, well that would be great because as late war comes in guns get used more and more, running into smaller craft not worth torpedoes.Then in emergency situations it would matter, some subs managed to use guns to ward off escorts when forced to surface...Salmon in October 44, Tambor in 1944 did so as well if I recall.. Do you have any ideas on how to do this?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Webster

I don't know about that could just be nobody ever cared enough to work on it since surface fighting is such a rarely used part of the game by most players.

I don't recall anyone EVER trying to get all guns to defend against surface targets so until someone says its hard coded I wouldn't say it cant be done.

I think it was once tried, somehow changing aa guns to shoot like deck guns, but then they wouldn't shoot at planes.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Armistead

I think it was once tried, somehow changing aa guns to shoot like deck guns, but then they wouldn't shoot at planes.

I figured itd be either or, like so many things in SH 4. I'd rather have them shoot at surface targets.rarely do i need AA guns and only reason i allowed myself in position to need them is because knew i had them.Occasionally my gunners will get lucky with the 40 MM and knock one of the planes down but diving (as in RL) was best way to deal, so i'd def rather have them fire on surface targets.Hopefully make them accurate as well, annoys me off how terrible the deck crews are, even if top rated men manning the gun.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Actually it was a 37mm anti-tank gun. The original armament on the Elco 80-footer was two pair of .50 calibres in twin mounts and a 20mm at the stern. Many skippers tried different combinations, and by the end of the war the standard armament from the factory moved the 20mm from the stern to the bow, replacing it with a 40mm.

My profuse apologies for being off 3 mm; I think he(JFK) had been involved in covering a marine contingent's night escape in the Solomons and thought it would add to his weight-of-metal in cover fire. 3mm= 1 "," on the sabbath!