If you're going to do yourself in, this is the way to explain it

[Onkel Neal]

Martin Manley: My Life and Death
Born 8-15-53, Died 8-15-13 , Age 60

http://www.businessinsider.com/ex-sp...ing-why-2013-8

http://www.zeroshare.info/

So, to think he just plotted all this down just to off himself...

I finally decided the best way to do it would be at 5AM on August 15, 2013 at the far southeast end of the parking lot at the Overland Park Police Station. If everything worked out right – and I’m sure it did, I called 911 at 5AM. I told them “I want to report a suicide at the south end of the parking lot of the Overland Park Police Station at 123rd and Metcalf. Bang.”

Edit, ok, obviously he was really depressed. sad.

[Armistead]

I pretty much agree with much of what he wrote, who wants to die having their arse wiped, deal with the economic collapse, etc. The fact is, I hate humanity, so if it all goes to hell, I want to be here to witness it.

Truth is, the guy was a coward, you can find many reasons to die, better to find a reason to live.

[CaptainHaplo]

I will quote part of the Declaration of Independence...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

It was his Life, and he choose to do with it what he would. In this case, end it on his terms. It was his right to do so - and I can only say that provided his actions in emailing/mailing letters, etc were true and accurate, he did a rather responsible job of it.

[Feuer Frei!]

Yea cool. Suicide is so fashionable.

I like how on the bottom of the page linked to zeroshare it says: in case this is of help to anyone..and then link.

Unless i missed the point or irony of that, his accounts of his suicide and life aren't helpful at all to someone considering suicide.
Garbage.

In fact all it does is advertise that if you can't man up and handle crap in your life like so many others have to, including me every single day of our lives, and that you have come to the conclusion that the only way to deal with the crap is to off yourself, well, pretty darn sad really.

Is there a flip side to this? Of course.

EDIT: The other thing that irritates me about this is why the hell tell me about it? (his account)
You wanna off yourself, go ahead.
You can't handle life? Go ahead.
Show pony. Attention-seeker.

[Jimbuna]

Very sad

[AVGWarhawk]

Kind of selfish and the resulting aftermath of those in his family left behind apparently did not matter much. Seems like a game to leave GPS coordinates to his claimed fortune. Suicide in a majority of cases involves a individual who is very troubled and often clinically depressed. Somehow I do not see this as the case. I see it as the easy way out. So many with so little carry on into their golden years. Perhaps there was more to his story but we and his family will never know. This is the aftermath.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Very sad

Indeed.
He should've taken up fishing. Good stress reliever for some. Just put a lure on a hook, throw the line out and hope you get a bite. He should've gotten together with a buddy and gone fishing instead.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

He should've taken up fishing. Good stress reliever for some. Just put a lure on a hook, throw the line out and hope you get a bite. He should've gotten together with a buddy and gone fishing instead.

Maybe he didn't have a 'buddy'.
A lot of suiciders are loners.

Also, maybe he was like me in respect to fishing.
No patience for it, in turn annoying and gets bored and never fishes again.

[Skybird]

Where one can assume somebody considers suicide and makes the deicison in a confused, disarranged state of mind due to a pyschological symptom/syndrome or intoxication, intervention can be justified. It may indeed be a mistaken decision then, or a cry for help, what in German is called "appellative suicide", with the real intention to find death having to be put into question.

Problem is psychologists tend to see ALL suicide attempts as cries for help only, as "appellative suicides".

But where somebody makes a calm, reasonable decision while mentally being obviously not handicapped, nobody has the right to judge that person and to hinder it. It is his life, not yours, and his decision, not yours. You have no claims to make for him. He does not owe you obedience to your moral views, you do not possess him.

You must not even judge him. Who are you to judge and make a verdict about the most ultimate and final decision a living being can make? And can you ever be certain to be in knowledge of all the relevant facts and factors that led that individual to that decision? Have you been inside his life, his thinking, his experiencing? Do you know how he get where he is, what made him what he is? You know almost nothing.

Thanathology was a special interest of mine long time ago,and I dealt with people with NDEs, but also with old, dying people a bit, and sometimes with their relatives or friends. I found that often those saying "he is a coward", "she has no right to do this", did so because of narcissistic, selfish reasons. They could not stand that somebody refused what they themselves considered to be worthy, and occasionally somebody even could not stand that the other was evading his desire to control him.

I personally find it "stupid" if people who suffer from some painful disease and know they will die a mean death in the end, think they must hold out as long a possible, ending up with their last months spent in hospital beds, with great pain, boredom, and the perspective of death before their eyes anyway. But hey, that ius my view, and it must not be theirs. I leave them the freedom to suffer as long as they want.

Since some years I know that is a fate that looms in my own future for sure, too. And I have already made according decisions and arrangements myself. You do not win praise or fame by holding out in agony as long as possible, there is nothing to win, nor is it an experience that ennobles you in any way or strengthens you, nor does it matter to you once you are gone - all that MAYBE would be factors to consider if only you'd survive it, but when death bis certain anyway, you win nothing and your suffering means nothing.

I believe in the life that is being enjoyed, not in a life that is being suffered.

Ethically, also there is no aregument against suicide deciisona made in a rational state of mind. He who does so while being old or ill, removes himself from the list of burdens for others. That alone clears any issue that might be raised by some. How should that not be an expression of claiming your right for freedom and free decision making?

I refer to David Hume, Jean Améry, Emile Cioran.

With determination and anger I stand up to everybody denying the right of suicide to somebody due to his personal relgious beliefs. The religious beliefs of a person are that person'S personal problem only, and nobody elses'. Somebody may claim that his deity owns all life and that man has no right to dodge that deity's property right, but that is a belief by the person only who holds that belief. No claim for other people is to be made on its' grounds.

I collided repeatedly with two Christian priests in a hospital where I once made a multi-months practical. There arrogance and hunger for control over people's life was unbearable. Thankfully I had a very humane boss there who covered me when I attacked them, because they wanted to see me getting fired. I later learned a Franciscan monk with whom I even befriended for some years (until his monastery here in the city was shut down) who although no agreeing in full with my views nevertheless hard partial sympathy and tolerated what I said, because he saw the quality of compassion and free will in my argument.

I wonder what became of him, we lost contact. We had some good hours and some really hot discussions - but it always was hot over the matter, not personal, and it never went so far as to leave the grounds of constructive intention. Great guy that was! He really gave me fire.

And a real great and noble man I had the luck to know once, told me this, and it is something like an unwirtten motto in my life: "Mensch-sein? Haltung bewahren, den Blick nicht abwenden."

[Skybird]

I can say without fear of contradiction that since June 11, 2012, I have been much more focused on others than myself. I’ve done many things that I otherwise would not have done solely based upon the fact that I was not going to be around much longer and wouldn’t have many more opportunities. Knowing it was coming to an end helped me focus on what was most important.

^ This. I also know that other people making that decision said that it made them feel more freedom than ever before in their lives. Precious only is what is rare and limited. Preciousness helps you to sort your priorities. Not fearing the limited nature of your time on Earth, sets you free, and makes you walking beyond the borders where usually people would stop to go further. Where there is no lack, man tends to fritter.

[u crank]

It is sad.

I've come around on this subject a lot in recent years. Maybe it's because I'm getting old or maybe it's because of this. I have a brother-in-law that I have known for almost forty years. He has cancer, it has spread into his brain and his time is short. Two months or less. He has a wife, three daughters and six grandchildren. A very close knit family. The quality of his life has gone from a good retirement to this in less than six months. Makes you think. Whatever Walt and his family decided I would support them completely.

On the other hand since I don't know much about this guy, his suicide seems well... I won't say it. By the extent of his website, this was not a decision made in a hurry. I certainly would give him or anyone else the right to do whatever they want. But don't expect me to feel sorry for him. It seems to me that he would have options. Get help, make new friends, do something completely unselfish.

I wonder what my brother-in-law would think?

[WernherVonTrapp]

There's almost always an underlying reason why a person attempts or succeeds at suicide. I say "almost" because I have not investigated, nor been directly/indirectly involved in every suicide that has ever taken place. I can say that, of all the suicides/attempts that I've been involved with directly/indirectly, the investigation always pointed to an underlying cause, sometimes in complete contrast to any notes left behind by the victim.
I won't inject my personal belief into the matter but I will say, prudence warrants that, when eternity may be at stake (whether one believes in one or not), you had better be careful in considering what fate you could be subjecting yourself to. This is not to judge anyone who is suicidal or anyone's reply in this thread.

@Feuer Frei!
True, he may or may not have. I know of suicides who had more families and friends whom they were active with, and still killed themselves w/o anyone knowing why (outside of police investigation). There should always be something more constructive to do with one's life than to kill oneself.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by u crank

It is sad.

Honestly, I feel no sadness at all in this man's story. I find it... well, refreshing, straight, honest, serious. Maybe it has something to do with an attitude I share with Socrates whom he directly quotes with this snippet:

“Ordinary people seem not to realize that those who really apply themselves in the right way to philosophy are directly, and of their own accord, preparing themselves for dying and death. If this is true, and they have actually been looking forward to death all their lives, it would of course be absurd to be troubled when the thing comes for which they have so long been preparing and looking forward.”
—SOCRATES, PHAEDO

All life is limited, we all struggle to find our "solution" to how to deal with the awareness of our mortality, and nthat everything we love and everyone we know, will die, and we will need to come along with the loss we feel over that, until one day we are confronted with the process of our own leave. In the modern West, many people and our whole culture have turned to actively denying, at least hiding death, we avoid dealing withz it, we presume to stay young forever, and we do a lot of sometimes funny, often silly things to give the i mpression that indeed we are young: young when we are 30, 40, 50, even 60 and 70. To be hinest, I think many peopole make real fools of themselves there. And the motivation driivng them, is panic leading them to active denial.. They try to run from themselves, they want to outrun time, ignoring that time cannot be defeated.

And ucrank, I do not think this man expected anyone to feel sorry for him. I think that was the last thing he was concerned about.

Haltung bewahren, den Blick nicht abwenden. Or to put it in the wonderfully laconic words of some British general: "Of course we could have tried to run away - but why dying tired?"

[Feuer Frei!]

It's all good and well arguing the points of who are we to judge or there must be underlying reasons or what suicide is (cry for help or otherwise).

The thing that really irritates me about this particular case is that the guy wrote up a story about his life and why he killed himself, and published it.

Why?
To justify his decision to take the easy way out?
To me? To his family? The garbage collector? The takeaway stand attendant?
Who?

All the points raised in previous points don't address this question.

People have their own definition of suiciders.
So do i.
But to publish the life and the reason why the suicide was the answer to the fact that life dealt some bad cards and the only answer to the deal was to take the most senseless and gutless way out.

And that absolutely ridiculous sentence at the bottom of one of the links in the first post makes this even more ridiculous in my eyes.

The reasons for publishing this is what needs investigating.

Not how we or psychologists define suicide.

And when the suggestion gets made that when a person makes the decision of suicide in a calm and rational manner and how dare he be judged is difficult to digest.

What has that got to do with the end result?

Suicide can be described in many ways.

But publicising your life, which describes and introduces us, the reader to the second chapter, suicide, and then, having the website at the end suggest if this has helped anyone considering suicide, is laughable and reeks of selfishness, shallowness, and more.

And before we suggest that maybe he wrote all this to aid or to help others who are contemplating suicide, i say this:
how can a guide to giving up on life and taking oneselfs life be of any help to the thousands of poor souls who are contemplating suicide.

Please spare me of the lectures, the definitions, both clinical and otherwise of what suicide means.
It is irrelevant.

EDIT:

And the arrogant way in which some parts are written is ludicrous.

you also owe me. You owe me the time it takes to understand why I did what I did without prejudging. I've done my part. The rest is up to you. If you opt to not read it, then I'm tempted to say "You can't handle the truth!"...

What garbage.

He mentions that he wrote it all up to suggest that it would be useful to studyiers of suicide, or other folks who are in a similar position.

I doubt any of it will be useful.

Footnote: as the reader can probably tell, i am very passionate about this. Maybe too passionate.

[Wolferz]

Wasn't it Jesus who said...
"If thy eye offend thee pluck it out"?

Same thing here for the most part. The idea of being trapped in an aging, withering body that is totally dependent on others until the moment of expiration was offensive to this fellow. I hope he had an escort across the valley that lies between this realm and the next. Being forgiven for killing himself is another problem he'll have to face. Thou shall not kill and all that.

I think we are here to learn compassion. Not only for others but ourselves also.