realistic deckgun reload times

[Kip Chiakopf]

What are the realistic load times for the various deck guns?

[Sailor Steve]

Reload times are problematic. Way back when Beery changed them from 3 seconds to 20 or 30 seconds there were huge arguments with people insisting they had "proof" that he was wrong.

A 3-4" gun (which includes the 8.8cm gun) can be reloaded in 3-4 seconds, and that is provable. The problem is that when the waves rise, people have to keep their balance, and even light shells are harder to handle. The next problem is that while the gun can be reloaded that quickly, unless the target is 500 meters away the gun captain has to actually aim after each shot. The further the distance the more he has to think about it. Then when there is the problem that a submarine is round, and not really a good gun platform. The gun captain has to "fire on the roll" as they did in the sailing ship days. He has to wait until the boat rolls to the correct position before he can fire.

Unfortunately the game doesn't take any of that into account. If you set it for three seconds they will fire that quickly in the worst weather. If you set it for twenty you'll be waiting that long in perfectly flat seas.

I use Commander to set mine to 12 seconds for the 8.8cm gun and 15 for the 10.5cm gun. I have the allowed firing weather to be 11 m/s because the AA guns are higher up and I think should fire in that weather (not that I ever use them anyway), but I manually disable the deck gun at 7 m/s.

[sharkbit]

I think I have my deck guns set for around 12-15 seconds as well. Seems like forever when you're shooting at a merchant who is shooting back.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Reload times are problematic. Way back when Beery changed them from 3 seconds to 20 or 30 seconds there were huge arguments with people insisting they had "proof" that he was wrong.

A 3-4" gun (which includes the 8.8cm gun) can be reloaded in 3-4 seconds, and that is provable. The problem is that when the waves rise, people have to keep their balance, and even light shells are harder to handle. The next problem is that while the gun can be reloaded that quickly, unless the target is 500 meters away the gun captain has to actually aim after each shot. The further the distance the more he has to think about it. Then when there is the problem that a submarine is round, and not really a good gun platform. The gun captain has to "fire on the roll" as they did in the sailing ship days. He has to wait until the boat rolls to the correct position before he can fire.

Unfortunately the game doesn't take any of that into account. If you set it for three seconds they will fire that quickly in the worst weather. If you set it for twenty you'll be waiting that long in perfectly flat seas.

I use Commander to set mine to 12 seconds for the 8.8cm gun and 15 for the 10.5cm gun. I have the allowed firing weather to be 11 m/s because the AA guns are higher up and I think should fire in that weather (not that I ever use them anyway), but I manually disable the deck gun at 7 m/s.

There is no one size fits all answer here as Steve is pointing out, some folks complain its too short, so it gets adjusted then they whine cause its too long.

I set mine to 4 seconds and i dont use it unless the sea state is pretty much calm. every documentary or photo i have seen of u-boats using the deck gun has been in pretty calm seas - additionally, i think the deck gun was often used at close in ranges - not at the long 10,000+ meter shots that require a lot of guess work... but more likely fired at 3000 m or less

I have frequently used this video on youtube to make my case for reload times...

many people point out that the video is cut up, and it is

HOWEVER between the 0:35 - 0:47 time stamps the video is *not* cut up and you can clearly see a shot, a shell casing discarded, a new round put in, and a second shot being fired and all of this taking place within a matter of about 4.75 seconds

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

HOWEVER between the 0:35 - 0:47 time stamps the video is *not* cut up and you can clearly see a shot, a shell casing discarded, a new round put in, and a second shot being fired and all of this taking place within a matter of about 4.75 seconds

True. On the other hand the target is not in the picture. How close is it?
At 0:30 seconds we see a shell ejected and a new one put in in about 3 seconds. It looks to me like the target they keep showing is about 1000 meters away.

As with so many things it really is up to the player to make that decision. Thank the lords of the sea JSCones gave us the ability to make the change quickly and easily.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

How close is it?

close...

i think a u-boat commander who expected to reach out and touch a target at long range with his deck gun would be relatively nutty.

to fire at anything outside of a couple of KM is just a waste of ammo IMHO

but thats just me.

I've only got 250 rounds of HE. and by God all 250 rounds are hitting something besides water. I mean if i miss a target at long range with 15 shells... thats 15 shells i could have jabbed into the guts of a small tanker.

I use the Erich Hartmann method, if the target fills your gun site... you are sure to hit him.

[Missing Name]

Back when I first started, I had the deck gun reload time set for 1 second. This made it easier to engage destroyers at long range. Think "autocannon."

According to Stern's "Type VII U-boats,"

The effective rate of fire was between 15 and 18 rounds per minute.

Seems a bit unrealistic, but still much slower than my 60 shots a minute.

I've since upped the realism to what seems reasonable to me and set the minimum acht-acht reload to 9 seconds, 10.5cm to 12 seconds.

Back to what you said, Sailor Steve... do you just not use the deck gun in winds above 7 knots or are there separate configurations for flak and offensive weapons?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Missing Name

Back to what you said, Sailor Steve... do you just not use the deck gun in winds above 7 knots or are there separate configurations for flak and offensive weapons?

No, it's all me. That's another flaw in the game. Actually I have my Commander waves set to 'Seasonal', and if I see water washing over the deck I don't use the gun.

[ninja turtle]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I set mine to 4 seconds and i dont use it unless the sea state is pretty much calm. every documentary or photo i have seen of u-boats using the deck gun has been in pretty calm seas - additionally, i think the deck gun was often used at close in ranges - not at the long 10,000+ meter shots that require a lot of guess work... but more likely fired at 3000 m or less

That's how I have mine set. I tend not to use the deck gun unless the target is quite close (1500m max) and is only a small merchant in calm water. I think 4 seconds is a fair reload time

[vanjast]

I'd say 6-7 secs is a good average.
BOY!! did I have classic args with Beary on this when the historical film footage showed the guncrew up to their knees in seawater, firing at a fast rate (4-5 Secs), in a real scenario.

Maybe an excellent guncrew.. but non-the-less, showed what was possible.
But yeah.. pity the game doesn't model these things.. so choose and average time.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by vanjast

the historical film footage showed the guncrew up to their knees in seawater, firing at a fast rate (4-5 Secs), in a real scenario.

Do you still have that footage? I've been up to my knees in seawater on a moving ship, and I couldn't do anything but hang on for dear life.

Beery always said his numbers were based on average firing rates over a number of sea battles. I don't know where his information came from, so I always took it with a grain of salt myself. My biggest negative was toward the people who just said "I've read the official firing rates and that's final! I know they could fire twenty rounds per minute!" It didn't matter that firing tests were always conducted in good weather and not against real targets, but that didn't matter. So, while I didn't really agree with Beery I stood fast against his detractors, because it was apparent that their main motivation was to play the game to their best advantage. At least he tried to make some sense out of it.

[desertstriker]

personally I have a method of in rought waters I count manually to 10-30 seconds or use the stopwatch to time the reload that way in clear weather I can still get the high rate of fire and in a storm i can decide on a random time for diferent things. Such as dude 1 got saltwater in his mouth to the guys down below retreiving shells slower. after the self implemented reload it can take even longer to fire because I have to time the roll of the boat so I am firing at the best possible time.

[vanjast]

I'll see if I can find the video.. buried away in the 'archives' somewhere?

From what I understand there were 3-4 guys operating the gun, and two (or more) extra guys passing ammo around.

The maximum firing rate would depend on the slowest person.

Getting the ammo to the gun would be first delay - Guncrews form a chain passing ammo, so generally the delay is the time it take for you to pass the ammo, or pick it up and pass it = a few seconds.

The gun layer would always have the gun trained, and just needs a 'tap on the shoulder'. A small delay from him(3-5secs) to fire on the crest or trough for greater accuracy.

Sea conditions would definitely affect firing rate, probably halving the maximum rate....

Max rate AFAIK is = 15 per minute (make it 12 to be realistic)... half is 6 so an average (rounded down) would be 8 = 7.5 seconds. Throw in a extra few seconds for 'Dumbo' at the end of the line and make it 10 seconds.
This is before final aiming for the 'Layer'... which could take another 5 seconds or so.

15 second rate = 4 shells per minute is still a reasonable figure, before the weather gets to rough to have the gun crew out there. This is much better than waiting for the 'coffee to boil'.