In a bind - need strategy help!

05-25-13, 10:16 AM

So here's the deal: 1943, returning from patrol north of England. Just bee-lining around England to get back to Bergren, minding my own business.

On my current course, I miraculously pop up in the middle of a British flotilla - only 700 meters from a few cruisers, 2 or 3 Nelson's, and a King George Battleship. The problem is I only have 2 torpedoes left - one in a fore tube, one in an aft tube. I really want to bag that KG battleship.

I've reloaded the save and few times and have tried a few things: I've hit the KG battleship in the rear thinking to knock out it's propulsion and leave it adrift, then line up the aft tube with a shot to the center to sink it. That didn't work because the hit to the propellers didn't do anything, not even scratch the paint.

I've also tried to line up the aft tube first (before being detected), trying to sink it in one shot, or a second with the fore torpedo, but the first hit just sends it running and I can't turn the boat around and catch it with the fore tube in time.

I've also completely missed a bunch of times because as soon as I fire, it turns and runs.

What would you do?? I've even looked through the game files to try and add more torpedoes to my save (hence, cheat) but I can't find where that torpedo complement data is saved. HELP!

Missing Name · 05-25-13, 12:55 PM

My 2 pesos here...

Sadly, you're going to be doing a lot of reloading to get that one crucial hit on a KGV that disables all of its propulsion. I'm not quite sure how the game models it, but the real KGV had quite compartmentalized machinery as in this image (link, top profile) The inner and outer screws were controlled by boiler and machinery rooms with a good amount of separation. You would need to strike at the weakest point - where all four shafts exit the hull. Again, a very difficult shot. Then you need to strike the ship a second time to ensure a sinking. One shot will be unlikely to have enough of an effect on a stationary target, especially something so well-armored.

The Nelsons might be arguably more difficult through the same strategy - sure, there's only two shafts, one main machinery space, one main boiler space. But you must also remember that they were considered the epitome of the "all or nothing" armor scheme. In other words, the propulsion system is very, very heavily armored. The unarmored sections were designed to not impair seaworthiness dramatically if flooded. A single, secondary shot will again likely have little effect unless you stay on the site for a very, very long time.

Your better chance of gaining some renown is to take out a cruiser. Sure, they're not worth as much a battlewagon, but they are much more likely to sink from two eels. It would be best to either to guarantee a sinking than to gain no credit for damaging a target. And of course, this is assuming you survive your raid.

GoldenRivet · 05-25-13, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing Name

And of course, this is assuming you survive your raid.

1943 eh?

good luck with that

VONHARRIS · 05-25-13, 02:11 PM

1943
And you run into a British Task Force.

Shoot at anything comes into range and dive deep hoping to avoid detection and the following hedgehogs and DCs.

Gute Jadg Herr Kaluen!

MantiBrutalis · 05-26-13, 05:06 AM

Renown, renown... Who cares?

Play it the way you want. Sure, sinking a ship is a lot better, but severely damaging one is a win in my books too.

Canovaro · 05-26-13, 07:15 AM

I would go for one of the smaller ships which gives you more change of a sinking.
Well to be honest, in 1943, I would let them all pass and survive to hunt another day with all those destroyers around.

Herr-Berbunch · 05-26-13, 07:53 AM

In '43 you're pretty much screwed anyway, I'd try something a little daring - two shots to the rear to disable, hide underneath as the rest come in to get you and hopefully get the BB instead.

But I've never made it to '43 so don't listen to my tactics.

GoldenRivet · 05-26-13, 10:55 AM

i remember years ago in the stock version i downed a BB with the deck gun...

i was in a similar situation, ran across task force, hit the BB with my last 2 torpedoes, evaded destroyers they ran away after a while but the BB was stopped listing to port badly. so i surfaced about 100 meters off the starboard side and just used every shell i had on the BB as he couldn't bring his guns low enough to shoot me.

eventually a few fires broke out, i think it took like an hour, but eventually he went down

i wouldnt suggest this in GWX

05-26-13, 01:03 PM

Great tips so far. I'm sort of following one of your suggestions: I was able to hit it in the engine compartment(s) and disable it, then dive down and hide underneath. Now I'm planning to resurface on the other side once the covering ships leave and use the last aft torpedo to try and sink it. A few reloads of attempting this and I've been unable to finish the job, but I think if I hit the front it might sink it. I tried surfacing to use the deck gun, but I am in a "storm" (not really) and the KGV deck guns are ridiculous.

That thing is huge!

I did some reading on wikipedia on the KGV:

"The King George Vs were the first British battleships to alternate engine rooms and boilers in the machinery spaces, which reduced the likelihood of one hit causing the loss of all power. The machinery was arranged in four engine (turbine) rooms and four boiler rooms, with the 8 machinery compartments alternating in pairs of engine or boiler rooms."

"The main armour belt was 23.5 feet (7.2 m) high and covered the hull side from the main armoured deck to finish 15 feet (4.6 m)[18] below the deep waterline.[24] Post-World War I studies had indicated that it was possible for delayed-action AP shells to dive under a shallow belt and penetrate into vital areas of the ship and therefore the main belt was made to extend as far below the waterline as possible.[25] Along the ship, the belt started just forward of the forward turret and finished just aft of the aft turret. The belt was at its thickest above and at the waterline. Along the magazines, the belt was 15 inches thick (381 mm);[26] over the machinery spaces, the belt was 14 inches (356 mm). The lower section of belt tapered to a thickness of between 4.5 in and 5.5 in.[3][27] Armour protection was even better than the thickness of armour would indicate due to the improved qualities of the cemented[28] armour which provided excellent resistance."

That would explain why it's so hard to sink. In reality, I doubt a single torpedo would stop it in its tracks like I've done, but hey I'll take it.

Herr-Berbunch · 05-26-13, 01:37 PM

All it takes is sloppy housekeeping - a door left open - or a piece of luck - internal pipework fracture.

Good luck, and don't forget to not be underneath when she finally goes.

Jimbuna · 05-26-13, 03:21 PM

A tip:

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!!

Missing Name · 05-26-13, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

A tip:

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!!

Remember, ramming always works.

(no it doesn't.)

And in theory, if you get riiiiiiiight next to the hull and surface, your deck gun can be used. (After everyone else leaves, of course)

BrucePartington · 05-26-13, 04:24 PM

Question: just for clarification, are you saing you saved the game while submerged and successfuly reloaded that savegame?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammermill

Great tips so far. I'm sort of following one of your suggestions: I was able to hit it in the engine compartment(s) and disable it, then dive down and hide underneath. Now I'm planning to resurface on the other side once the covering ships leave and use the last aft torpedo to try and sink it. A few reloads of attempting this and I've been unable to finish the job, but I think if I hit the front it might sink it. I tried surfacing to use the deck gun, but I am in a "storm" (not really) and the KGV deck guns are ridiculous.
(snip)

05-26-13, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrucePartington

Question: just for clarification, are you saing you saved the game while submerged and successfuly reloaded that savegame?

Yeah, that's what I've been doing consistently. I'll save at various points and if things don't go as planned, I'll reload the previous save and try again. Not much for realism but I like trying different strategies. Why, does that not normally work?

u crank · 05-26-13, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammermill

Why, does that not normally work?

Some people have problems saving while submerged. I haven't and don't even think about it any more. It's a mystery.

By the way, welcome to SubSim Hammermill.

05-25-13, 10:16 AM	#1
Hammermill Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	In a bind - need strategy help! So here's the deal: 1943, returning from patrol north of England. Just bee-lining around England to get back to Bergren, minding my own business. On my current course, I miraculously pop up in the middle of a British flotilla - only 700 meters from a few cruisers, 2 or 3 Nelson's, and a King George Battleship. The problem is I only have 2 torpedoes left - one in a fore tube, one in an aft tube. I really want to bag that KG battleship. I've reloaded the save and few times and have tried a few things: I've hit the KG battleship in the rear thinking to knock out it's propulsion and leave it adrift, then line up the aft tube with a shot to the center to sink it. That didn't work because the hit to the propellers didn't do anything, not even scratch the paint. I've also tried to line up the aft tube first (before being detected), trying to sink it in one shot, or a second with the fore torpedo, but the first hit just sends it running and I can't turn the boat around and catch it with the fore tube in time. I've also completely missed a bunch of times because as soon as I fire, it turns and runs. What would you do?? I've even looked through the game files to try and add more torpedoes to my save (hence, cheat) but I can't find where that torpedo complement data is saved. HELP!

05-25-13, 12:55 PM	#2
Missing Name Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Westun New Yahk Posts: 748 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	My 2 pesos here... Sadly, you're going to be doing a lot of reloading to get that one crucial hit on a KGV that disables all of its propulsion. I'm not quite sure how the game models it, but the real KGV had quite compartmentalized machinery as in this image (link, top profile) The inner and outer screws were controlled by boiler and machinery rooms with a good amount of separation. You would need to strike at the weakest point - where all four shafts exit the hull. Again, a very difficult shot. Then you need to strike the ship a second time to ensure a sinking. One shot will be unlikely to have enough of an effect on a stationary target, especially something so well-armored. The Nelsons might be arguably more difficult through the same strategy - sure, there's only two shafts, one main machinery space, one main boiler space. But you must also remember that they were considered the epitome of the "all or nothing" armor scheme. In other words, the propulsion system is very, very heavily armored. The unarmored sections were designed to not impair seaworthiness dramatically if flooded. A single, secondary shot will again likely have little effect unless you stay on the site for a very, very long time. Your better chance of gaining some renown is to take out a cruiser. Sure, they're not worth as much a battlewagon, but they are much more likely to sink from two eels. It would be best to either to guarantee a sinking than to gain no credit for damaging a target. And of course, this is assuming you survive your raid. __________________ Largest target sunk with deck gun: Japanese auxiliary cruiser, 15000 tons Largest engaged: HMS Nelson. Results inconclusive. Read Brag's stuff

05-26-13, 07:53 AM	#7
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	In '43 you're pretty much screwed anyway, I'd try something a little daring - two shots to the rear to disable, hide underneath as the rest come in to get you and hopefully get the BB instead. But I've never made it to '43 so don't listen to my tactics. __________________

05-26-13, 10:55 AM	#8
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	i remember years ago in the stock version i downed a BB with the deck gun... i was in a similar situation, ran across task force, hit the BB with my last 2 torpedoes, evaded destroyers they ran away after a while but the BB was stopped listing to port badly. so i surfaced about 100 meters off the starboard side and just used every shell i had on the BB as he couldn't bring his guns low enough to shoot me. eventually a few fires broke out, i think it took like an hour, but eventually he went down i wouldnt suggest this in GWX __________________

05-26-13, 01:37 PM	#10
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	All it takes is sloppy housekeeping - a door left open - or a piece of luck - internal pipework fracture. Good luck, and don't forget to not be underneath when she finally goes. __________________

05-25-13, 02:11 PM	#4
VONHARRIS Konteradmiral Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Greece Posts: 1,992 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	1943 And you run into a British Task Force. Shoot at anything comes into range and dive deep hoping to avoid detection and the following hedgehogs and DCs. Gute Jadg Herr Kaluen!

05-26-13, 05:06 AM	#5
MantiBrutalis Planesman Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Pilsen, Czech Republic Posts: 183 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	Renown, renown... Who cares? Play it the way you want. Sure, sinking a ship is a lot better, but severely damaging one is a win in my books too.

05-26-13, 07:15 AM	#6
Canovaro Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,062 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	I would go for one of the smaller ships which gives you more change of a sinking. Well to be honest, in 1943, I would let them all pass and survive to hunt another day with all those destroyers around.

05-26-13, 01:03 PM	#9
Hammermill Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Great tips so far. I'm sort of following one of your suggestions: I was able to hit it in the engine compartment(s) and disable it, then dive down and hide underneath. Now I'm planning to resurface on the other side once the covering ships leave and use the last aft torpedo to try and sink it. A few reloads of attempting this and I've been unable to finish the job, but I think if I hit the front it might sink it. I tried surfacing to use the deck gun, but I am in a "storm" (not really) and the KGV deck guns are ridiculous. That thing is huge! I did some reading on wikipedia on the KGV: "The King George Vs were the first British battleships to alternate engine rooms and boilers in the machinery spaces, which reduced the likelihood of one hit causing the loss of all power. The machinery was arranged in four engine (turbine) rooms and four boiler rooms, with the 8 machinery compartments alternating in pairs of engine or boiler rooms." "The main armour belt was 23.5 feet (7.2 m) high and covered the hull side from the main armoured deck to finish 15 feet (4.6 m)[18] below the deep waterline.[24] Post-World War I studies had indicated that it was possible for delayed-action AP shells to dive under a shallow belt and penetrate into vital areas of the ship and therefore the main belt was made to extend as far below the waterline as possible.[25] Along the ship, the belt started just forward of the forward turret and finished just aft of the aft turret. The belt was at its thickest above and at the waterline. Along the magazines, the belt was 15 inches thick (381 mm);[26] over the machinery spaces, the belt was 14 inches (356 mm). The lower section of belt tapered to a thickness of between 4.5 in and 5.5 in.[3][27] Armour protection was even better than the thickness of armour would indicate due to the improved qualities of the cemented[28] armour which provided excellent resistance." That would explain why it's so hard to sink. In reality, I doubt a single torpedo would stop it in its tracks like I've done, but hey I'll take it.

05-26-13, 03:21 PM	#11
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	A tip: BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!