IMPOSSABLE to escape DD's

[Reece]

Hi, I'm actually starting to hate this game, I don't know how anyone can put up with the uber DD's ( jan 41), convoy, silent running, once I have fired my torpedo's I move away going deep but after 3 attempts I have to give up!! It doesn't matter what escape route I take the Destroyers always find me and hound me, what ever move I make they match imediately, within 15 minutes - uboat is destroyed!! Most frustrating!!
Is there a fix for this?

[Umfuld]

I just recently learned that running slow isn't actually silent. You have to keep the RPMs under 100. (I go to the conning tower to check)

And I think the latest GWX patch 1.03 actually changed the slowest speed on the dial to not go over 100 RPMs to address this issue.

Edit: But looking at your download page you probably already have 1.03. So I don't know what to tell ya.

[Henri II]

That's strange, because I have exectly the opposite experience. I think I have by now about 20 patrols with GWX, all in 39-42, and I've been only sunk sunk by an escort once. That was by a cruiser, with artillery. The escorts seem to be rather inefficient, they either can't get a good lock on my position or can't aim right, because I really can't remember when the last time was I've been damaged by a DC. Sometimes I think I might be missing some difficulty setting, or something.

Having said this, I'm not sure what advice I can give you except for the standard "deep and silent". Usually I go to about 80 m and silent running (z/y-button). Run in a straight line and don't turn to much, except when you hear them dropping the DCs directly on you. In this case a short burst at flank speed and a course change by about 30-40 degrees should be enough to evade. Hard turns slow you down to much, so I try to avoid them. If they still can locate you, go deeper. DCs need a longer time to reach you if you are very deep, so you have more time to evade, on the other hand if your hull is damaged at 280 m, you might die very fast.

[danlisa]

Hi Reece, is this your own Mod Mix or are you using a supermod?

[Henri II]

If you feel like they deffinetely have a lock on you, go to flank speed, wait until you actually reach flank speed, switch to silent running and immidiately innitiate a course/depth change, that might throw them off for a while.

One more thing you might try is not to dive at all. My stantard tactic is to attack at night on the surface. Shoot the torpedoes at 1500-2000 m, turn around immidiately, shoot the rear tubes and run away on the surface. At night the escorts cannot see very far, usually I'm out of sight before they start their light show. Depending on the type of your boat and the sea state you can even outrun some of the slower escorts on the surface.

[Reece]

Usually I go to about 80 m and silent running (z/y-button). Run in a straight line and don't turn to much, except when you hear them dropping the DCs directly on you. In this case a short burst at flank speed and a course change by about 30-40 degrees should be enough to evade.

I do exactly the same, starts with 1 DD but soon you are trying to contend with 3 DD/escorts, Depth of the floor was 100mts so I couldn't go very deep, what sucks is the fact that they match my every move & drop with pinpoint accuracy!
I actually fired at only 1 target from 1.5km away then got out as fast as I could (at silent running a snail could pass)! You can watch the hydraphone red line as they all close in on me, matching my every cource change!

Edit: @ Henry, I try that but can't shak'em! @ Danlisa, all sensors/cfg files etc are GWX 1.03 with Rubini's "Alert Crew Mod".

[danlisa]

Originally Posted by Reece

....all sensors/cfg files etc are GWX 1.03 with Rubini's "Alert Crew Mod".

If you have imported the sensors/cfg files from GWX 1.03 into 'your mix' then it's entirlely possible that you have inadvertantly made them Mega Uber DD's.

Now, I really don't know much about the sensor files etc but I do know that it was the most tested & tweaked item in GWX as soooooo many things affected it. Have you still got the original versions that you overwrote? If you have, swap them out and test, if things return to normal then you have found the reason. That's all I can offer as my knowledge is limited in this area, hopefully someone with more knowledge will help.

[Reece]

Thanks Dan, it is strange, though frustrating, as to what files affect what, seems that if I get good sensors they do as well, even though the AI has separate files to the player! Hasn't been this bad with Uber aircraft & Uber DD's for a long time, saying that though I'm usually playing, due to constant modding & restarting campaigns, stuck between 1939 & 1940! Since SH4 release the mods have slowed down & I'm actually getting further in the game, wonder if Rubini could elaborate on all the files associated with player & AI sensors as well as accuracy of there bombs/DC's, I can then check that I have all the proper (matching) files.

[joea]

Quick comment...100M is not deep at all you take a risk with every attack in shallow water. My understanding is that is how most u-boats escaped early on. Second, not all DDs early in the war were as hopeless as we think (want?) u-boats, even with ace skippers (Prien) were sunk early in the war.

[Ducimus]

You dont get under early war sonar until around 200 meters as i recall. Executing a submerged attack in 100 meters of water is a bit risky to say the least. In shallow waters, even the dumbest of AI can be a royal pain.

[Reece]

Wonder if they changed that for SH4, since the best US subs could only go to around 100m (150feet), correct me if I'm wrong!

Hopefully someone can list all the associated files to do with sensons, so I can check, though they should be allright, I suppose Ducimus I should have picked on a target at the end of the convoy, or not at all in shallow (less that 100m) water!

[Maraz]

Originally Posted by Reece

Wonder if they changed that for SH4, since the best US subs could only go to around 100m (150feet), correct me if I'm wrong!

OK!
150 feet is around 50 metres.

Maraz

[Spytrx]

I have exactly the same problem there as you Reece - and not only with DD's. I upgraded to GWX (with the latest patch) over the weekend just to see what all the hype was all about and slowly but surely come to regret it.

Playing in '42 I have played a few missions so far, all in the BE, BD, AL, and AE sectors of the board. I use a clean game, no other mods than the ones out of the box and no tweaks, btw. Right after leaving St Nazaire I have to duck and dive out of the way of all sorts of Allied planes and bombers that head right for me. Crash diving and staying under till there is hardly any air left doesn't work, because the planes are still there when coming back up (and the best bit is, the planes don't seem to be concerned about fuel at all - I was attacked by a swarm of fighters and hunters in BD, 16oo clicks from land and they still circled overhead for over an hour till I resurfaced) even though I had moved away from my original position by a couple nm.

When attacking a convoy of any size I aim to either hit it from behind (sending contact for other boots to follow and then taking aim at the rear defender and at least one merchant) or from the centre (coming from the front, full stop & dropping depth, let convoy pass over and then start attack) - yet the moment the periscope comes up that is it - unless it is dark and stormy seas I have a DD on my within a few minutes and they drop DC's with an accuracy unheard of. One time I was lucky enough to hide on the floor right next to a T3 that I sank just before and they still found me - how the heck is that possible?

Since installing GWX I haven't brought a single U-boot home - I have most boxes in realism ticked (just as I had before) and I am not even over ambigious in the tasks I take on, but compared to before the enemy not only has total air supremacy but also 100% sea control (both a little bit ahead of historical data).

[P_Funk]

Well its possible that by going from vanilla SH3 to GWX you might have encountered limitations in the conventional wisdom which you've used in playing the game up until now. I know that I've had to adapt to GWX.

For one, just dropping below the convoy and waiting for them to pass overhead won't work. Early war asdics could reach down as far as 200 meters if I recall correctly. Later war ones were much better. This means that simply submerging ahead of a convoy won't work later on. Also, Radar is becoming a major threat in the time that you're playing. This means that you can be detected at closer range, including your peri.

You should also review your evasion techniques. For one we used to think that ahead slow was enough. But now we know that you need to have your rpms at or below 100 in addition to running silent. Also you need to point your tail at the nearest DD and to only turn in 10 to 30 degree angles when detected and to burst ahead at Flank when he drops charges and to drop back to 1 or 2 knots once you've built up speed. And you need to go DEEP. The deeper the better. If you can sit on the ocean floor near a sunken ship then you're probably in shallow waters and thats always dangerous.

You should read through the GWX manual carefully. There are some excellent evasion techniques and advice at the very back of it in Appendix C.

[ref]

I strongly recomend reading this thread (all of it )
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377

@Reece, where you in 0 knts. of wind speed?, if the sea is too calm avoid approaching a convoy at more than 1 knot of speed, and time your entry precisely or you'll be detected, I'm playing my 19th patrol (late 42) in my career and I've been able to avoid detection in most cases by planning a carefull approach and even more carefully the retreat , also don't get greedy, one attack at a time,choose the best target shoot your torpedoes, then dive to at least 70 mts, all at 2 knots max., unless detected (detected, not pinged), and move away to a safe distance and then plan another attack.

Ref