Possible [REQ] SH5 Mega Mod possibilities

[finchOU]

Not trolling or what not....just a simple question. Am I'm sure it's been asked in the past. We all know about SH3 and GWX..... is this going to happen for SH5??
Let me caveat what I just wrote by saying....SH5 is Dead without the MODers. There would be no continued interest in this game if it weren't for the MODers. This is not meant to be a "give me, give me, give me" type of thread....nor should be interpreted as a lack of respect for anyone associated with Modders or administrators. I have the utmost respect to both! This is simply a question of actual possibilities and a thread to learn more about Modding and the how to's and how not to's of the subject.

I think a MM (Mega Mod) would ease some suffering from not only the uninformed Simmer as well as the veteran Simmer who is accustom to MODing SH5....much like it did with SH3. It allowed everyone to be on the same page with reguards to troubleshooting..... no More MOD soup..... no More restarting a career. No more tweaking (to a point...its never done tweaking )

So what about limitations about SH5 that make this difficult to implement? How is this different than say SH3? What are the hold backs of doing this effectively? I can think of a couple (from a person with limited computer expertise).... having to manually change files.....obvious hard coded files....etc. Getting a group of Modders to agree a pon the "list" of MODs that everyone thinks are "right" (via the internet).

[TheDarkWraith]

Probably will never happen. I, for one, like content over flash as evidenced by my UIs mod. Flash eats memory and there are better things to do with memory than fill them with UI textures

[finchOU]

I'm of the same mold....tho I would say immersion through realism first vice graphics, Sim vice Game. I guess you can fool anyone with graphics...but you'll never fool them for very long if the there is no structure.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by finchOU

I'm of the same mold....tho I would say immersion through realism first vice graphics, Sim vice Game. I guess you can fool anyone with graphics...but you'll never fool them for very long if the there is no structure.

Yep. Give me controls, things to play with, dials, functionality, complexity, realism and content. The graphics just add the polish but not really needed. The gameplay experience is what matters to me

SH5 has SO MUCH potential. I'm going to have a fun time with it's code...

[finchOU]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Yep. Give me controls, things to play with, dials, functionality, complexity, realism and content. The graphics just add the polish but not really needed. The gameplay experience is what matters to me

SH5 has SO MUCH potential. I'm going to have a fun time with it's code...

I don't necessarily need to hit every switch....but I want the option to do so.

What limitations are there with the code? What kind of copy write does Ubisoft still have? I remember with SH3..the Modders were upset because they were initially very limited in what they could MOD. Is this the same with SH5??

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by finchOU

I don't necessarily need to hit every switch....but I want the option to do so.

What limitations are there with the code? What kind of copy write does Ubisoft still have? I remember with SH3..the Modders were upset because they were initially very limited in what they could MOD. Is this the same with SH5??

There are no limitations. That's the beauty of assembly. Whatever you can dream you can make happen (if you can code it). The hardest part is REing the software decoding all of it's data structures, pointers, etc. Once that is done it's all up to your coding skill I'm still in the decoding data structures and pointers stage. I probably have 10% decoded but it's the 10% that matters - units, engines, waypoints, zones, boxes, etc. Haven't found the damages or sensors yet (I found where it checks all the unit's sensors to see if they detected a contact but haven't gone any further in it). The more you decode the easier it is to decode the rest because things stand out and are obvious what they point to or do.

I stumbled onto the code that updates the unit's engines and am just about done decoding it. That 'stumble' just unlocked a HUGE amount of other things I was looking for (the code to switch engine types when surfacing/submerging for one!) and unfortunately means more decoding work to do Such is the nature of the beast.

Will I ever have this game 100% decoded? No way. I'm only looking for the things I want to change/add. And there are MANY things to be added related to realism and content

Ubisoft's copyright doesn't mean diddly squat to me. That's the whole reason I wrote the Generic Patcher. You, the end user, update YOUR licensed copy of the game with my patcher. No laws broken, no one can complain. If I were to release a modified exe (or act file) then I would be in violation of the law.

[keysersoze]

Great post

Since I don't really have any modding ability, I'm not really qualified to offer an opinion on the feasibility of creating a mega mod a la GWX. I will say, though, that I think this is the logical and maybe even the essential next step for SH5. It's been out for three years now and despite all the hard work of the community and the excellent information about how to create a harmonious mod soup, there's still nothing approaching a mega mod. When I first decided to take the SH5 plunge after playing SH3 + GWX for a long time, I was intimidated by the sheer number of mods I would need to make the game playable/fun. Even with sobers' help, installing something like seventy mods is not an easy task, at least for me.

I'm not saying we need a massive, all-encompassing project like GWX or LSH3 just yet, but the community could really benefit from moving in that direction. It would level the playing field, giving a larger number of people access to a stable, easily-accessible solution to the bugs of stock SH5, while hopefully attracting more players (and therefore more potential modders) to the game. Finally, I think it would help modders in the long-term by refocusing their attention on the major problems that have yet to be solved.

I'm sure it would be difficult to get a project like this off the ground. Probably the biggest difficulty would be organizational, getting everybody on the same page, as you said. That's actually one of the main reasons I started the "community projects" thread. In addition to being a useful tool for modders, it might also serve as a litmus test for the community's desire for large cooperative projects.

[TheDarkWraith]

Community projects are great, don't get me wrong. I prefer to work alone though. I hate relying on others to do something because more than half the time you get burned. Not to mention that I'm a perfectionist and TOTALLY HATE people that take shortcuts or just don't give 100% into whatever it is they are doing. If something is worth doing it's worth doing 100%.

People have too many visions of what things should be and when too many chiefs are in a project it goes nowhere. I'm not a follower, I'm a leader and thus always project my vision/path into whatever it is I partake in. If who or whomever it is doesn't like my vision I go off and do it alone. I usually have more success that way anyways.

There are many things the Navy taught me and some of them I have just mentioned. Those things have allowed me to live the lifestyle that I have and to be able to do, and see, things people only dream about.

Anyone has the potential for success. It's just their own inner person that is their worst enemy and holds them back Step out of that 'safety zone' you have around you and you will see what you have been missing!

[finchOU]

Keys, hopefully I didn't step on your crank with this thread..... I saw yours but didn't read it yet (reading now actually).

TDW, Too many chiefs is always problematic. But at the same time you want like minded people with drive to accomplish these kinds of things. It's just too big of a project for one person as you have said yourself. I think the problems arise when people start making assumptions about what other people actually want to accomplish or when people feel they are being disrespected and their voice is not being heard. Add the fact that the Internet is the medium...and things can deteriorate rather quickly. It's definitely a conundrum especially when there is no monetary light at the end of the tunnel....and that your drive is based solely on a desire for the ultimate sim based of your own personal agenda. Trying to get like minded people on the same agenda is the first step..... with a list of commonly held goals.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by finchOU

....and that your drive is based solely on a desire for the ultimate sim based of your own personal agenda.

Yes I have a vision of where I want this game to be. I also have the means to make it happen and thus keep following the path I have laid down It will take time but I have lots of time.

[finchOU]

I would love to hear this Vision!! I'm pretty sure it will be pretty close to what a lot of people believe this Sim should be.

[Dogfish40]

It appears to me that with the mods and patchs that have already been presented that a 'Mega Mod' is very possible. We know that this game is not coded like SH3&4, so there are still some eggs to crack.
I think this series is a wonderful hobby in itself. Like someone mentioned below, I'm not yet a real modder, but after playing this, I really have to be careful to make things run their best.
I would love to see a mega-mod eventually so all you had to do is click on a .exe file and make a few selections and viola....brand new game. Still, I think this is a bit down the road, I feel that some big discoveries are coming. So this is going to get even better...
You guys are great
D40

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by finchOU

Keys, hopefully I didn't step on your crank with this thread..... I saw yours but didn't read it yet (reading now actually).

Not in the slightest

That thread didn't say anything specific about large mega mods, nor is that its direct intent (at least for now). But that is the spirit I had in mind when I wrote it. I'm glad you've been more explicit

[Targor Avelany]

Personally, as much as I would like this to happen, I do not believe that the community is ready to do it.

First of all, I completely understand TDW's point of view and believe that if you going to do something - do it right. Or don't touch it. I'm probably a lot more patient with people and forgive imperfection here and there, but otherwise there is no "I" in a team, imo.. You work hard and you work together.

Second, if you look in this forum, there is a little project that gap, keysersoze, and couple of other people are starting to work on, and that project hasn't really been booming with volounteers, which indicates that community really fine as it is right now and not striving to do anything.

You also have to realize that even though some people might have wanted to do it, they don't have time at this moment.

Thirdly, some tools are still not ready. When (yes, I believe in TDW) GR2 Editor/Viewer will be able to do animations and delete/add meshes (not just subsets), add bones and modify them - than we can talk about serious mega-mod. At this time it takes a lot to clone/adjust/redo units. If you look at the GR2 thread, I'm having trouble with cloning a unit and making animation for it major time at the moment.

And lastly (doesn't mean least important): if you look around the forum, you notice that there is still waaaaaay toooooo many different opinions on how, what, where should be working: starting from environmental effects and all the way to mechanics of explosions...

[finchOU]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Personally, as much as I would like this to happen, I do not believe that the community is ready to do it.

First of all, I completely understand TDW's point of view and believe that if you going to do something - do it right. Or don't touch it. I'm probably a lot more patient with people and forgive imperfection here and there, but otherwise there is no "I" in a team, imo.. You work hard and you work together.

Second, if you look in this forum, there is a little project that gap, keysersoze, and couple of other people are starting to work on, and that project hasn't really been booming with volounteers, which indicates that community really fine as it is right now and not striving to do anything.

You also have to realize that even though some people might have wanted to do it, they don't have time at this moment.

Thirdly, some tools are still not ready. When (yes, I believe in TDW) GR2 Editor/Viewer will be able to do animations and delete/add meshes (not just subsets), add bones and modify them - than we can talk about serious mega-mod. At this time it takes a lot to clone/adjust/redo units. If you look at the GR2 thread, I'm having trouble with cloning a unit and making animation for it major time at the moment.

And lastly (doesn't mean least important): if you look around the forum, you notice that there is still waaaaaay toooooo many different opinions on how, what, where should be working: starting from environmental effects and all the way to mechanics of explosions...

A lot of good info........ That last statement is so very true. Everyone has their own idea as to whats most important. Just wish I had the time and skill to be a better contributor to the community.......almost wish the website would sell 3rd party mega mods and add ons. But it's not that organized.... I for one would have absolutely no problem paying to get right Mod.