Periscope height

Fifi · 04-02-13, 04:57 PM

Hi,

Noticed same thing as in SH5...observation periscope is lower than attack one when full raised...and have to raise my periscope depth around + 1m each time i wanna use it...otherwise it's kind of useless if staying underwater!
(even in calm sea)

Is it accurate, or periscope depth is wrong, or observation periscope height is wrong?

TorpX · 04-02-13, 09:46 PM

I don't know if they are properly modeled or not. I usually end up going to a higher depth anyway. This was often done in RL to increase the range of their view. The part that bothers me most is the difficulty in making small depth changes. It would be nice if you could just order the crew to come to 46 ft., or whatever.

Fifi · 04-02-13, 10:20 PM

aanker · 04-03-13, 03:55 PM

They are not properly modeled in stock. After editing now I can be submerged at 60' with no problem using either the Attack, Observation, or SD radar.

I used S3D and edited (I think - sensors sub US sim ) .......... which would be: Sensors_sub_US.sim
- in \Data\Library\USSubParts\

Looks like I changed the values to 5.878512 from 5.0 (similar to RFB at one time). Look in nodes obj_Extensible in Sensors_sub_US.sim for Attack Periscope.

There are 2 Observation Periscopes. I believe one of those is the extendable SD radar.

It has been such a long time since I did this. I suggest getting the Sensors_sub_US.sim from TMO & RFB and comparing those numbers to yours and using their heights because they were well researched.

I am just now coming back to SH4 after a very long break so please forgive my vague answer.... lol

Happy Hunting!

Fifi · 04-03-13, 04:50 PM

So, welcome back!
...was talking about TMO (1.9 or 2.5 is same)...have to raise depth to see something

Nevertheless i can live with it, as far as i can raise depth without beeing detected.
Was asking because it's an issue i found in all SH, modded or not

aanker · 04-03-13, 08:56 PM

Oh these guys are good - and very good with S3D.

TMO uses a different method ...... and so does RFB because all three, the Attack, Observation, and SD are the same numbers (but a different set of numbers for both mods).

Going back through numerous old versions of TMO, the numbers are always 5 at 10 sec, so Ducimus uses a different method to get different heights.

However, RFB numbers are 5.878512 at 10 sec for all three, the Attack, Observation scope, & SD.

Both mods have different heights for the Attack scope, Obs scope and SD.

I have a lot of catching up to do - is the bottom line. My first reply up there was the wrong track..... (a cheap fix ) .... lol

04-04-13, 08:46 PM

I seam to recall someone stated that the observation scope was supposed to be 1 meter higher then the attack scope when both are fully raised so that the bottom of your view you should just see the top of the attack scope but its not blocking your view (or maybe it was vice versa

I cant remember)

Fifi · 04-04-13, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webster

I seam to recall someone stated that the observation scope was supposed to be 1 meter higher then the attack scope when both are fully raised so that the bottom of your view you should just see the top of the attack scope but its not blocking your view (or maybe it was vice versa

I cant remember)

In my TMO 2.5 it's the inverse...obs scope is at least 1m lower.
BTW like in SH5 too. Always thought it was the attack one the lowest.

aanker · 04-05-13, 10:41 AM

I want to contact a submariner (I think I may know one or two who served on these boats before they became obsolete) or see some specs because I thought the Obs scope was higher too.

Can't find specs very easy. The periscope wells are long enough for a longer Obs scope. Looking at the internet tours hasn't been helpful unless I missed it.

Worse comes to worse I'll ask one of these museum groups like BATFISH.

Speaking of:

- USS Batfish (SS-310)

aanker · 04-06-13, 10:56 AM

Probably best to post this here.

According to the BALAO class, BATFISH (SS-310) Muskogee War Memorial:

Quote:

"Attack Scope is 64 feet from the deck. Nav Scope is 60 feet that is 85 feet from the keel so attack scope is 89 feet from the keel."

So, the Attack scope should be higher.

Good thing we guessed right :)

I don't know why these tidbits of information should be so hard to find - it is like everything is TS with the modders.

And, I didn't want to bother the Batfish folks because they have a lot to deal with, especially now with the recent death "in their family" - a WWII submarine vet.

Happy Hunting!

Fifi · 04-06-13, 05:03 PM

Good find aanker

So the sim is right. Obs scope lower than attack scope.
But doesn't really make sens to me

Meaning obs scope used for observations not that close to danger and with best observation setting (height, magnification etc) and attack scope for action close to danger with best "camouflage" (thin lens and mast diameter, lower height etc)...
Well, if i was a sub conceptor, i would have built the inverse we have!

TorpX · 04-06-13, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifi

So the sim is right. Obs scope lower than attack scope.
But doesn't really make sens to me

I'm just guessing here, but I can think of a few issues.

First, if you have them the same height, both are blocked (partly); but if one is higher, it has an unobstructed view.

There could be vibrational considerations. The Obs scope might have a worse view, if they made it higher.

As you said, the attack scope is needed when danger is close at hand, and they would not want to take chances on being spotted by a/c. (?)

When nothing was about, it was common to either surface, or plane up so they could conduct "high periscope" searches. The exact height in those situations isn't really important.

Fifi · 04-06-13, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpX

First, if you have them the same height, both are blocked (partly); but if one is higher, it has an unobstructed view.

Did they used both at the same time?
When leaving one for the other, didn't it retract automaticaly?

aanker · 04-06-13, 09:07 PM

Yes, whenever they wanted they used both at the same time... don't forget the SD radar mast was also raised before surfacing to check for aircraft, and they "walked the scope" in a 360 before surfacing.

The Obs scope was also used for navigation - they called it the "Nav scope"

TorpX · 04-07-13, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifi

Did they used both at the same time?
When leaving one for the other, didn't it retract automaticaly?

I think they used both at least sometimes, not sure how often, I can't remember just where I read that. Probably when they are just searching for something. Not much else to do when they are waiting for something to come along. The automatic retraction that happens when you dive is purely a game thing.

04-02-13, 04:57 PM	#1
Fifi Navy Seal Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: France Posts: 6,087 Downloads: 465 Uploads: 0	Periscope height Hi, Noticed same thing as in SH5...observation periscope is lower than attack one when full raised...and have to raise my periscope depth around + 1m each time i wanna use it...otherwise it's kind of useless if staying underwater! (even in calm sea) Is it accurate, or periscope depth is wrong, or observation periscope height is wrong? __________________ https://www.mediafire.com/file/rfw2h...N_V7.8.7z/file

04-02-13, 10:20 PM	#3
Fifi Navy Seal Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: France Posts: 6,087 Downloads: 465 Uploads: 0	__________________ https://www.mediafire.com/file/rfw2h...N_V7.8.7z/file

04-03-13, 03:55 PM	#4
aanker Pacific Thunder Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yellow Sea Posts: 1,896 Downloads: 236 Uploads: 14	They are not properly modeled in stock. After editing now I can be submerged at 60' with no problem using either the Attack, Observation, or SD radar. I used S3D and edited (I think - sensors sub US sim ) .......... which would be: Sensors_sub_US.sim - in \Data\Library\USSubParts\ Looks like I changed the values to 5.878512 from 5.0 (similar to RFB at one time). Look in nodes obj_Extensible in Sensors_sub_US.sim for Attack Periscope. There are 2 Observation Periscopes. I believe one of those is the extendable SD radar. It has been such a long time since I did this. I suggest getting the Sensors_sub_US.sim from TMO & RFB and comparing those numbers to yours and using their heights because they were well researched. I am just now coming back to SH4 after a very long break so please forgive my vague answer.... lol Happy Hunting! __________________ " Bless those who serve beneath the deep, Through lonely hours their vigil keep. May peace their mission ever be, Protect each one we ask of thee. Bless those at home who wait and pray, For their return by night and day." Last edited by aanker; 04-06-13 at 10:35 AM.

04-03-13, 04:50 PM	#5
Fifi Navy Seal Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: France Posts: 6,087 Downloads: 465 Uploads: 0	So, welcome back! ...was talking about TMO (1.9 or 2.5 is same)...have to raise depth to see something Nevertheless i can live with it, as far as i can raise depth without beeing detected. Was asking because it's an issue i found in all SH, modded or not __________________ https://www.mediafire.com/file/rfw2h...N_V7.8.7z/file

04-03-13, 08:56 PM	#6
aanker Pacific Thunder Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yellow Sea Posts: 1,896 Downloads: 236 Uploads: 14	Oh these guys are good - and very good with S3D. TMO uses a different method ...... and so does RFB because all three, the Attack, Observation, and SD are the same numbers (but a different set of numbers for both mods). Going back through numerous old versions of TMO, the numbers are always 5 at 10 sec, so Ducimus uses a different method to get different heights. However, RFB numbers are 5.878512 at 10 sec for all three, the Attack, Observation scope, & SD. Both mods have different heights for the Attack scope, Obs scope and SD. I have a lot of catching up to do - is the bottom line. My first reply up there was the wrong track..... (a cheap fix ) .... lol __________________ " Bless those who serve beneath the deep, Through lonely hours their vigil keep. May peace their mission ever be, Protect each one we ask of thee. Bless those at home who wait and pray, For their return by night and day."

04-02-13, 09:46 PM	#2
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	I don't know if they are properly modeled or not. I usually end up going to a higher depth anyway. This was often done in RL to increase the range of their view. The part that bothers me most is the difficulty in making small depth changes. It would be nice if you could just order the crew to come to 46 ft., or whatever.

04-04-13, 08:46 PM	#7
Webster Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I seam to recall someone stated that the observation scope was supposed to be 1 meter higher then the attack scope when both are fully raised so that the bottom of your view you should just see the top of the attack scope but its not blocking your view (or maybe it was vice versa I cant remember)

04-05-13, 10:41 AM	#9
aanker Pacific Thunder Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yellow Sea Posts: 1,896 Downloads: 236 Uploads: 14	I want to contact a submariner (I think I may know one or two who served on these boats before they became obsolete) or see some specs because I thought the Obs scope was higher too. Can't find specs very easy. The periscope wells are long enough for a longer Obs scope. Looking at the internet tours hasn't been helpful unless I missed it. Worse comes to worse I'll ask one of these museum groups like BATFISH. Speaking of: - USS Batfish (SS-310) Last edited by aanker; 04-05-13 at 06:54 PM.

04-06-13, 05:03 PM	#11
Fifi Navy Seal Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: France Posts: 6,087 Downloads: 465 Uploads: 0	Good find aanker So the sim is right. Obs scope lower than attack scope. But doesn't really make sens to me Meaning obs scope used for observations not that close to danger and with best observation setting (height, magnification etc) and attack scope for action close to danger with best "camouflage" (thin lens and mast diameter, lower height etc)... Well, if i was a sub conceptor, i would have built the inverse we have! __________________ https://www.mediafire.com/file/rfw2h...N_V7.8.7z/file

04-06-13, 09:07 PM	#14
aanker Pacific Thunder Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yellow Sea Posts: 1,896 Downloads: 236 Uploads: 14	Yes, whenever they wanted they used both at the same time... don't forget the SD radar mast was also raised before surfacing to check for aircraft, and they "walked the scope" in a 360 before surfacing. The Obs scope was also used for navigation - they called it the "Nav scope"