Civility in GT

Platapus · 03-20-13, 06:50 PM

“Civility costs nothing and buys everything.” Mary Worley Montagu

Things seem to be getting worse on GT. It is becoming rare that a thread is stated where someone does not end up making personal remarks, insulting comments, ad hominom attacks, and generally being rude. To make matters worse, other posters escalate the issue to new depths by responding in kind.

It is really taking the enjoyment out of many of the threads.

We need to lighten up. We are posting opinions on a video game website forum. How can anyone take any thing that seriously here?

It is great to disagree and awesome to learn different viewpoints, but not to bicker and attack.

Just a few suggestions:

If you disagree with an argument, attack the argument not the person.

If someone posts something that you find offensive, don't add to the offense by posting offensive stuff back at them. It does not equal things out. Let it go. No one is going to "win" here.

If there is someone you really don't like, don't read their posts. Nothing in the rules requires any post to be responded to or even read.

GT just seems to be getting worse every day.

Is it really so hard to be civil in postings?

Is it really so hard to ignore people who are uncivil in their postings?

“One's character is defined by his or her words and actions. To be treated with respect and kindness, one must follow the Golden Rule and extend respect and kindness to others. Not only does our conduct define us as individuals, but it also provides an example for others, especially our children. If we all practice respect and good manners, we can create a more civil and ordered society where a free exchange of ideas and opinions is valued.” - Bob McDonnell

Takeda Shingen · 03-20-13, 06:54 PM

Amen. As I said before, it always helps me if I mentally append my statements with ...here on this forum dedicated to video games. Provides me with all the prespective I need.

Dowly · 03-20-13, 07:05 PM

Oh dont even bother, nothing's going to change.

u crank · 03-20-13, 07:06 PM

Timely and very well said. I couldn't agree more. I joined this forum because of the good vibe and friendly nature. Hope that continues.

Takeda Shingen · 03-20-13, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

Oh dont even bother, nothing's going to change.

Maybe not, but it is part of my job to cheerlead for positive change.

August · 03-20-13, 07:07 PM

If the moderators engage in personal attacks then you can hardly expect the membership not to engage in them as well. Like in any forum it's the moderators who set the tone, and whether it's their "snarky comments" or uninvited psychoanalysis they do more damage to peace and civility than any other group of people posting here.

I think Neal should fire the lot and replace them with people who can manage to keep their personal feelings separate from their job. Then you might see an improvement here but until then it's just going to get worse.

GoldenRivet · 03-20-13, 07:19 PM

i think people are just becoming more and more passionate - aggressive and defensive of their positions / arguments / beliefs.

when your freedoms, rights, beliefs, opinions, feelings, values etc feel like they are threatened or attacked, it is human nature to respond aggressively. even if it is supposed to be a civilized discussion.

additionally, being that there is a fair degree of anonymity on the internet, a person might be inclined to use a debate tactic or a string of words that they wouldn't ever really consider in a face to face discussion.

especially when the discussions involve politics, religion, core values etc

its not just a subsim thing either, the general topics of some of the other forums of which i am a member get just as bad if not worse. its come down to a point that discussion of politics or religion etc results in a warning, and eventually an outright ban of the offending individual. I personally think - speaking strictly as an American - that our nation is at a more divisive place in history than it has been since the civil war.

I had a former boss of mine turn away a man's business because of his political alignment. I have seen people disallow kids to play together because the other family was not the right political party for crying out loud. Thats just messed up.

so lets not go off thinking its a subsim thing, its just real life and its been that way for a long long time.

GoldenRivet · 03-20-13, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

If the moderators engage in personal attacks then you can hardly expect the membership not to engage in them as well. Like in any forum it's the moderators who set the tone, and whether it's their "snarky comments" or uninvited psychoanalysis they do more damage to peace and civility than any other group of people posting here.

I think Neal should fire the lot and replace them with people who can manage to keep their personal feelings separate from their job. Then you might see an improvement here but until then it's just going to get worse.

i would agree with this statement... though not all of them are guilty of it.

I agree that they set the tone, on the one hand you cant just expect them to roll over and take a lashing by the membership... on the other hand one expects that they would act with a certain degree of neutrality

not "Oh look its you with your normal BS" type comments

even if true, even if undeniable, i think its not really a Moderators place.

Takeda Shingen · 03-20-13, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

i think people are just becoming more and more passionate - aggressive and defensive of their positions / arguments / beliefs.

when your freedoms, rights, beliefs, opinions, feelings, values etc feel like they are threatened or attacked, it is human nature to respond aggressively. even if it is supposed to be a civilized discussion.

additionally, being that there is a fair degree of anonymity on the internet, a person might be inclined to use a debate tactic or a string of words that they wouldn't ever really consider in a face to face discussion.

especially when the discussions involve politics, religion, core values etc

its not just a subsim thing either, the general topics of some of the other forums of which i am a member get just as bad if not worse. its come down to a point that discussion of politics or religion etc results in a warning, and eventually an outright ban of the offending individual. I personally think - speaking strictly as an American - that our nation is at a more divisive place in history than it has been since the civil war.

I had a former boss of mine turn away a man's business because of his political alignment. I have seen people disallow kids to play together because the other family was not the right political party for crying out loud. Thats just messed up.

so lets not go off thinking its a subsim thing, its just real life and its been that way for a long long time.

No, it isn't just a SubSim thing, but I would like to think that we could rise above that sort of thing. We're a remarkably civil forum with very few chronic troublemakers. When we, as moderators, have to ask people to dial it back it is usually because that person happens to be worked up at the time, or even had a bad day.

Neal has said repeatedly that he doesn't want people's speech restricted in terms of giving opinions, only tone. In that sense I think it is really helpful to remember that (1) we are on a gaming forum and (2) that person who you are discussing things with didn't wrong you. He or she may disagree with you, but that is not criminal. You have to live and let live, at least as it pertains to the microcosm that is SubSim.

Oh, and if a moderator calls you out on your behavior just tone it down. It isn't personal. We're just fighting fires.

Buddahaid · 03-20-13, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

Oh dont even bother, nothing's going to change.

Just the names.

Ducimus · 03-20-13, 07:37 PM

I find the Ignore list helps to maintain civility when civility is otherwise unattainable. Using said list has kept me out of innumerous trollings, petty squabbles, flame wars, and general butt hurting.

GoldenRivet · 03-20-13, 07:42 PM

I've only got one person on my ignore list

August · 03-20-13, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I've only got one person on my ignore list

Yeah me too though there is a couple others I would add if I could.

Feuer Frei! · 03-20-13, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I've only got one person on my ignore list

I've got none on my ignore list. What does that say about reading things with a grain of salt and rising above the 'tone' of a post or the immaturity that exists in some threads.
I see a lot of comments posted purely to bait the other person. That is plain as day to see.

Now, if the person being baited with trolling attempts bites back then the person isn't any better than the Troller.

Let the mods do their job, if you want to have more power in who says what or where, apply to be a mod here.
If the application is not successful then unfortunately, or fortunately for those of us that do want to participate in the GT forum will either have to like it or lump it.
That's life.
Be a man and rise above the trolling and baiting that is, i admit becoming worse.
Yes, i've been gone for a while, but been here long enough to know and gauge what sort of community this is on Subsim.
I'ts a great community with some wonderful people onboard.
Let's rise up and be a little bit more mature about things.
This is not a gaming forum with 12-year-olds.

mookiemookie · 03-20-13, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I find the Ignore list helps to maintain civility when civility is otherwise unattainable. Using said list has kept me out of innumerous trollings, petty squabbles, flame wars, and general butt hurting.

I tried using it before, but I always found myself thinking "oh man, what has this clown said this time...." and clicking "show post". I gave up.

03-20-13, 06:50 PM	#1
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Civility in GT “Civility costs nothing and buys everything.” Mary Worley Montagu Things seem to be getting worse on GT. It is becoming rare that a thread is stated where someone does not end up making personal remarks, insulting comments, ad hominom attacks, and generally being rude. To make matters worse, other posters escalate the issue to new depths by responding in kind. It is really taking the enjoyment out of many of the threads. We need to lighten up. We are posting opinions on a video game website forum. How can anyone take any thing that seriously here? It is great to disagree and awesome to learn different viewpoints, but not to bicker and attack. Just a few suggestions: If you disagree with an argument, attack the argument not the person. If someone posts something that you find offensive, don't add to the offense by posting offensive stuff back at them. It does not equal things out. Let it go. No one is going to "win" here. If there is someone you really don't like, don't read their posts. Nothing in the rules requires any post to be responded to or even read. GT just seems to be getting worse every day. Is it really so hard to be civil in postings? Is it really so hard to ignore people who are uncivil in their postings? “One's character is defined by his or her words and actions. To be treated with respect and kindness, one must follow the Golden Rule and extend respect and kindness to others. Not only does our conduct define us as individuals, but it also provides an example for others, especially our children. If we all practice respect and good manners, we can create a more civil and ordered society where a free exchange of ideas and opinions is valued.” - Bob McDonnell __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

03-20-13, 07:06 PM	#4
u crank Old enough to know better Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Prince Edward Island Posts: 11,744 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 0	Timely and very well said. I couldn't agree more. I joined this forum because of the good vibe and friendly nature. Hope that continues. __________________ “Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” ― Arthur C. Clarke

03-20-13, 07:07 PM	#6
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	If the moderators engage in personal attacks then you can hardly expect the membership not to engage in them as well. Like in any forum it's the moderators who set the tone, and whether it's their "snarky comments" or uninvited psychoanalysis they do more damage to peace and civility than any other group of people posting here. I think Neal should fire the lot and replace them with people who can manage to keep their personal feelings separate from their job. Then you might see an improvement here but until then it's just going to get worse. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

03-20-13, 07:19 PM	#7
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	i think people are just becoming more and more passionate - aggressive and defensive of their positions / arguments / beliefs. when your freedoms, rights, beliefs, opinions, feelings, values etc feel like they are threatened or attacked, it is human nature to respond aggressively. even if it is supposed to be a civilized discussion. additionally, being that there is a fair degree of anonymity on the internet, a person might be inclined to use a debate tactic or a string of words that they wouldn't ever really consider in a face to face discussion. especially when the discussions involve politics, religion, core values etc its not just a subsim thing either, the general topics of some of the other forums of which i am a member get just as bad if not worse. its come down to a point that discussion of politics or religion etc results in a warning, and eventually an outright ban of the offending individual. I personally think - speaking strictly as an American - that our nation is at a more divisive place in history than it has been since the civil war. I had a former boss of mine turn away a man's business because of his political alignment. I have seen people disallow kids to play together because the other family was not the right political party for crying out loud. Thats just messed up. so lets not go off thinking its a subsim thing, its just real life and its been that way for a long long time. __________________

03-20-13, 07:42 PM	#12
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	I've only got one person on my ignore list __________________

03-20-13, 06:54 PM	#2
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Amen. As I said before, it always helps me if I mentally append my statements with ...here on this forum dedicated to video games. Provides me with all the prespective I need.

03-20-13, 07:05 PM	#3
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,052 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Oh dont even bother, nothing's going to change.

03-20-13, 07:37 PM	#11
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I find the Ignore list helps to maintain civility when civility is otherwise unattainable. Using said list has kept me out of innumerous trollings, petty squabbles, flame wars, and general butt hurting.