US seeks 'tough' N Korea sanctions

Jimbuna · 03-05-13, 01:41 PM

It is most gratifying to see China supporting the US on this issue....hopefully Russia will soon follow suit.

Quote:

The US has tabled a UN resolution - agreed with China - for sanctions that would target North Korea's diplomats and cash transfers.
Washington's UN ambassador Susan Rice said they would be "some of the toughest sanctions" the UN had imposed.
Li Baodong, China's UN envoy, said a "strong signal" had to be sent following North Korea's third and most powerful nuclear test last month.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21673332

Oberon · 03-05-13, 02:19 PM

Is there much left to actually sanction the DPRK with?

Ducimus · 03-05-13, 02:24 PM

S'cuse me while i not take North Korea's saber rattling episode number 93445234569993888 seriously.

Glock30Eric · 03-05-13, 03:21 PM

Just send a B-52 with loads of big macs and dump those macs over there and then we will win a war without a gunfire.

Oberon · 03-05-13, 03:55 PM

Heck, rather than use Big Macs you could use all the meat that's been pulled over here in Europe because of the horse meat scandal. I doubt they'd mind and it saves wasting the stuff.

Glock30Eric · 03-05-13, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Heck, rather than use Big Macs you could use all the meat that's been pulled over here in Europe because of the horse meat scandal. I doubt they'd mind and it saves wasting the stuff.

Clever move, bro!

Jimbuna · 03-05-13, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Heck, rather than use Big Macs you could use all the meat that's been pulled over here in Europe because of the horse meat scandal. I doubt they'd mind and it saves wasting the stuff.

^

Oberon · 03-07-13, 10:14 PM

The DPRK has scrapped all non-aggression pacts it has made with the ROK, closed its hotline with Seoul and shut down all border crossings.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21709917

Nothing really earth-shaking there (pardon the pun), and as usual they've rattled the sabre about exercising their right to pre-emptive nuclear strikes, yadda yadda yadda.

So, now we sit back and wait for a couple of months until they either come back to the table, or open fire at something.

Just another day on the Korean peninsula.

Stealhead · 03-07-13, 10:24 PM

What makes the DPRK dangerous is that its military is very loyal and they spend the overwhelming majority of GDP on military spending. The DPRK has nothing much but it does a very large and very dedicated military and many units are very well trained.

What I am more concerned about is how will other nations in Asia react if anything serious ever did happen between North and South.The lack of stability could be taken advantage of by other nations or cause tensions to rise between Korea's regional neighbors.

Sure it has been tit for tat for many tears now but tit for tat right over top a powder keg the resulting threat to stability of Asia makes Korea a very important region.

Oberon · 03-07-13, 10:45 PM

Chinas biggest concern is a refugee problem. If the DPRK goes to war, most of its armed forces will be pulled south, which means the northern borders will be very loosely guarded, which means more and more North Koreans will look at China and its prosperity and make a run across the border. This sudden mass influx of Koreans with no jobs, no education and no real use other than menial labour into a Chinese economy which is already starting to lose steam would be a big blow to the PRC, as well as requiring extra government intervention to feed these starving people.
When the DPRK begins to lose the war (not if, because its equipment, although well trained and large in number, is hopelessly outdated and underpowered compared to even the ROK army on its own, let alone with American involvement), then the number of refugees will increase dramatically as the Kim regime loses its grip on power which is always just a rifle bullet away from being transferred to the military.
At this point the PRC will probably be forced to step in, remove the Kim government (due to ill health) and put in a government of its own. Then there'll be the mess of having to repatriate all the North Koreans who fled across the border and who will do ANYTHING rather than return to Pyongyang.

In regards to other Asian nations, I can't see it having much of an effect on any other nations other than perhaps Japan which might face the occasional misguided DPRK rocket, either way the JSDF is pretty well equipped for shooting down North Korean rockets if it needs to. In Japan itself, it's hard to tell how the public would react, naturally the government would be fully behind any US mission in Korea, and US naval vessels and Air Force craft will be using Japan like a giant immobile aircraft carrier...but those who want the US base removed from Okinawa will probably not be swayed by the war, and there's very little chance that anyone will think about altering Article Nine of the Japanese constitution over it (although I can see it being mentioned if tensions between Japan and China get any higher than they already are).

South Korea is also a hard one to read, the populace are split into three groups, those who like the US being there to help defend against the North, those who don't really care, and those who think the US should leave. Unless the DPRK pulls a real rabbit out of its hat and manages to capture Seoul or cause as much damage to Seoul as it has threatened in the past, then I can't see the attitudes changing too much...in fact, the anti-US side may either accuse the US of forcing the DPRK into a war through sanctions and/or claim that the ROK can beat back any DPRK attack by itself (which, to be honest...looking at the tech they have now, it's not that far from the truth...the ROK is on a par with the DPRK in terms of firepower now, and soon it will eclipse it...perhaps this is what is spurring the DPRK on to create its nuclear arsenal, because that's the only firepower advantage it can achieve over the ROK?)
The populace of Seoul are well drilled against air attacks (not that many DPRK aircraft would make it across the DMZ intact after the first wave [perhaps not even the first wave]) and missile attacks (again, quite a few of these will probably be shot down before they reach their targets) so they will likely develop a 'blitz' mentality and continue life as normal...a little bit like the citizens of Tel Aviv whenever the PLO starts launching.
Russia has links to the DPRK, but I don't see them as being in a position either militarily or politically to do anything other than watch.

At the end of the war though, the status quo will return, the DPRK will be knocked out of the war game for a couple of decades (at least), the PRC will have a strong hand in the direction of the DPRK (expect to see a more conciliatory North Korean government) but reunification will remain an unachieved goal...because, simply put, it would destroy the ROK, it would make the problems in reunifying Germany look like a walk in the park.

Beijing knows this, Moscow knows this, Seoul knows this, Washington knows this...unfortunately, the only person who doesn't seem to know this is in Pyongyang...

Or perhaps he does, and he's playing a fine game of brinkmanship...we will see...

EDIT: Forgot that the DPRK and Russia DO share a land border, albeit a very small one. Russia might accidentally 'lose' some weapons over the border, but honestly if that was found out (and with US surveillence it probably would be) then Russia would be absolutely slated in the international theatre, so I think that they will sit this one out and leave the ball in Beijings court.

Jimbuna · 03-08-13, 08:51 AM

^ Excellent assessment Jamie

Skybird · 03-08-13, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glock30Eric

Just send a B-52 with loads of big macs and dump those macs over there and then we will win a war without a gunfire.

People with taste would consider that to be mass murder.

Skybird · 03-08-13, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Chinas biggest concern is a refugee problem (...) so I think that they will sit this one out and leave the ball in Beijings court.

Yep. Just one thing really is worrying, or two.

First, the chance that NK shells the south with dirty grenades or bombs, shells with radioactive material to contaminate the region. Second, the NK seems to turn increasingly desperate, and that is what makes such regimes even more ruthless and not caring for any future: because they have nothing to lose.

Primitive weapons and no gasoline to fuel planes and tanks - okay, but the AK-47's bullets still kill when hitting and the old iron bomb still explodes. A war still would call a tremendous blood toll, on both sides. I only say: get a map and check the topography. Mountains. Hills. Plenty of woods. The right place to play the old cowboys and indians in the jungle type of game.

Maybe that path cannot be avoided, nevertheless. Ball is in the North's field. And I am against making concessions again.

What a war would mean in financial burdens for an already bankrupt America, I do not even mention.

mookiemookie · 03-08-13, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

The DPRK has scrapped all non-aggression pacts it has made with the ROK

Just like they did in May of 1994, April of 1996, February of 2003, July of 2003, August of 2006 and May of 2009.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/nort...04200315F.HTML

STEED · 03-08-13, 01:08 PM

Why take up room with these NK plonkers?

Any one read a good book on the economic mess lately?

03-05-13, 03:21 PM	#4
Glock30Eric Ru$ Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 75 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Just send a B-52 with loads of big macs and dump those macs over there and then we will win a war without a gunfire. __________________ Keep calm and carry on.

03-08-13, 08:51 AM	#11
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,539 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	^ Excellent assessment Jamie __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-08-13, 01:08 PM	#15
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Why take up room with these NK plonkers? Any one read a good book on the economic mess lately? __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

03-05-13, 02:19 PM	#2
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Is there much left to actually sanction the DPRK with?

03-05-13, 02:24 PM	#3
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	S'cuse me while i not take North Korea's saber rattling episode number 93445234569993888 seriously.

03-05-13, 03:55 PM	#5
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Heck, rather than use Big Macs you could use all the meat that's been pulled over here in Europe because of the horse meat scandal. I doubt they'd mind and it saves wasting the stuff.

03-07-13, 10:14 PM	#8
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	The DPRK has scrapped all non-aggression pacts it has made with the ROK, closed its hotline with Seoul and shut down all border crossings. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21709917 Nothing really earth-shaking there (pardon the pun), and as usual they've rattled the sabre about exercising their right to pre-emptive nuclear strikes, yadda yadda yadda. So, now we sit back and wait for a couple of months until they either come back to the table, or open fire at something. Just another day on the Korean peninsula.

03-07-13, 10:24 PM	#9
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	What makes the DPRK dangerous is that its military is very loyal and they spend the overwhelming majority of GDP on military spending. The DPRK has nothing much but it does a very large and very dedicated military and many units are very well trained. What I am more concerned about is how will other nations in Asia react if anything serious ever did happen between North and South.The lack of stability could be taken advantage of by other nations or cause tensions to rise between Korea's regional neighbors. Sure it has been tit for tat for many tears now but tit for tat right over top a powder keg the resulting threat to stability of Asia makes Korea a very important region.

03-07-13, 10:45 PM	#10
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Chinas biggest concern is a refugee problem. If the DPRK goes to war, most of its armed forces will be pulled south, which means the northern borders will be very loosely guarded, which means more and more North Koreans will look at China and its prosperity and make a run across the border. This sudden mass influx of Koreans with no jobs, no education and no real use other than menial labour into a Chinese economy which is already starting to lose steam would be a big blow to the PRC, as well as requiring extra government intervention to feed these starving people. When the DPRK begins to lose the war (not if, because its equipment, although well trained and large in number, is hopelessly outdated and underpowered compared to even the ROK army on its own, let alone with American involvement), then the number of refugees will increase dramatically as the Kim regime loses its grip on power which is always just a rifle bullet away from being transferred to the military. At this point the PRC will probably be forced to step in, remove the Kim government (due to ill health) and put in a government of its own. Then there'll be the mess of having to repatriate all the North Koreans who fled across the border and who will do ANYTHING rather than return to Pyongyang. In regards to other Asian nations, I can't see it having much of an effect on any other nations other than perhaps Japan which might face the occasional misguided DPRK rocket, either way the JSDF is pretty well equipped for shooting down North Korean rockets if it needs to. In Japan itself, it's hard to tell how the public would react, naturally the government would be fully behind any US mission in Korea, and US naval vessels and Air Force craft will be using Japan like a giant immobile aircraft carrier...but those who want the US base removed from Okinawa will probably not be swayed by the war, and there's very little chance that anyone will think about altering Article Nine of the Japanese constitution over it (although I can see it being mentioned if tensions between Japan and China get any higher than they already are). South Korea is also a hard one to read, the populace are split into three groups, those who like the US being there to help defend against the North, those who don't really care, and those who think the US should leave. Unless the DPRK pulls a real rabbit out of its hat and manages to capture Seoul or cause as much damage to Seoul as it has threatened in the past, then I can't see the attitudes changing too much...in fact, the anti-US side may either accuse the US of forcing the DPRK into a war through sanctions and/or claim that the ROK can beat back any DPRK attack by itself (which, to be honest...looking at the tech they have now, it's not that far from the truth...the ROK is on a par with the DPRK in terms of firepower now, and soon it will eclipse it...perhaps this is what is spurring the DPRK on to create its nuclear arsenal, because that's the only firepower advantage it can achieve over the ROK?) The populace of Seoul are well drilled against air attacks (not that many DPRK aircraft would make it across the DMZ intact after the first wave [perhaps not even the first wave]) and missile attacks (again, quite a few of these will probably be shot down before they reach their targets) so they will likely develop a 'blitz' mentality and continue life as normal...a little bit like the citizens of Tel Aviv whenever the PLO starts launching. Russia has links to the DPRK, but I don't see them as being in a position either militarily or politically to do anything other than watch. At the end of the war though, the status quo will return, the DPRK will be knocked out of the war game for a couple of decades (at least), the PRC will have a strong hand in the direction of the DPRK (expect to see a more conciliatory North Korean government) but reunification will remain an unachieved goal...because, simply put, it would destroy the ROK, it would make the problems in reunifying Germany look like a walk in the park. Beijing knows this, Moscow knows this, Seoul knows this, Washington knows this...unfortunately, the only person who doesn't seem to know this is in Pyongyang... Or perhaps he does, and he's playing a fine game of brinkmanship...we will see... EDIT: Forgot that the DPRK and Russia DO share a land border, albeit a very small one. Russia might accidentally 'lose' some weapons over the border, but honestly if that was found out (and with US surveillence it probably would be) then Russia would be absolutely slated in the international theatre, so I think that they will sit this one out and leave the ball in Beijings court.