Questions about hostile ASW ships.

[King_Zog]

Hi all,

I've been enjoying the MH-60R and the P-3, but now I'm getting into the submarines, I have a few questions about hostile warship AI, which I don't think the manual answers...

1. Can the in-game AI ASW ships ping with active gear and listen out for me with their passive equipment at the same time? (It seems that most will ping every 45 seconds, are they listening with their hydrophones in between pinging?)

2. If suitably equipped, do they actually use their towed arrays and VDS?

3. If yes, are they smart enough to lower their VDS (or dangle a towed array) below a layer?

4. Can they hear me with passive sonar, even if they are travelling fast (20Kts+)?

5. Will they actually spot my masts with radar/visual sensors? (I've been playing on the assumption that they can).

6. It's surprising what you can see sometimes with the high freq sonar, can the AI detect it?

7. How close can I safely approach an enemy asw ship, assuming I'm travelling slow and deep in a 688i?

8. Do the AI units have individual skill levels like in SHIII, or do they all operate to the same standard of competency?

9. Can the AI hear me flooding launch tubes, opening tube hatches, and deploying/retrieving towed arrays?

Cheers!

[Beardmoresam]

In reply to Q1, they do use their towed/dipped array as far as I've noticed.
As for the masts question, the manual states that the masts can be detected on RADAR, apparently, so can subs at periscope depth under the right conditions, although I've yet to see that one.

[King_Zog]

Thanks Beard,

I'm loving dangerous waters so far, the multi-platform element makes it feel like several games in one.

Last night, I did a random anti ship mission in the Akula. The weather conditions were so stormy, that I managed to get up to almost point blank range to a Spanish ASW Frigate and I believe he was completely oblivious to my presence. Funny thing was, I didn't notice him either on the passive sonar, it was only when I raised the scope for a quick peek , and the enemy ship filled my view (quite a shock!) that I realised he was out there.

Now if only I can figure out how to do TMA properly!

[Dr.Sid]

Will try to answer what I remember .. haven't play DW in years.

Originally Posted by King_Zog

Hi all,
1. Can the in-game AI ASW ships ping with active gear and listen out for me with their passive equipment at the same time? (It seems that most will ping every 45 seconds, are they listening with their hydrophones in between pinging?)

Yes. They are generally isolated sensors on the AI ships which are usually both active. Passive is never turned off, active can be turned off if mission designer wishes.

Originally Posted by King_Zog

2. If suitably equipped, do they actually use their towed arrays and VDS?
3. If yes, are they smart enough to lower their VDS (or dangle a towed array) below a layer?

Yes. Though they usually don't have real towed array. They just have sensor at their coordinates which has similar parameters. IIRC Lwami adds 3 such sensors at different depths, so it simulates variable depth in a way. Check Lwami read-me.

Originally Posted by King_Zog

4. Can they hear me with passive sonar, even if they are travelling fast (20Kts+)?

Nope. Even AI sensors are affected by speed. Active too. There is at least one stock mission where there is some important ship escorted by ASW ships who ping away wildly, and whole group is moving at 20kts, and they can't hear you at all.

Originally Posted by King_Zog

5. Will they actually spot my masts with radar/visual sensors? (I've been playing on the assumption that they can).

Whatever manual says, your masts are not detectable in any way.

Originally Posted by King_Zog

6. It's surprising what you can see sometimes with the high freq sonar, can the AI detect it?

It can't.

Originally Posted by King_Zog

7. How close can I safely approach an enemy asw ship, assuming I'm travelling slow and deep in a 688i?

That really depends on conditions. Using layer you can get under 5 miles. Create your own test scenarios .. good way to get some real data.

Originally Posted by King_Zog

8. Do the AI units have individual skill levels like in SHIII, or do they all operate to the same standard of competency?

Same 'skill'. Same scripts, same everything.

Originally Posted by King_Zog

9. Can the AI hear me flooding launch tubes, opening tube hatches, and deploying/retrieving towed arrays?

Nope.

Originally Posted by King_Zog

Cheers!

Btw. here is one old thread of mine which contains some useful information about mechanics of DW sound propagation model:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117814

[Hawk66]

A small addition: In RA-Mod AI/player can detect masts...also in general AI is much more sophisticated/tougher (all platforms) than in the stock version...also LWAMI mod does do enhance the AI.

So, my recommendation would be once you are familiar with the game try one of these great mods!

[King_Zog]

Thank you Dr Sid (Your thread on sound propagation is very interesting btw) and Hawk, that's great information.

I'm currently switching between LWAMI and RA, as I like them both for different reasons... I wonder, is there an easy method to make a multiple installation so I don't have to keep re-installing the game to change my mod? (I have the steam version though, so maybe I can only install dangerous waters once anyhow - not really sure how it all works).

[Zander]

The way I do multiple installs is to save a patched 1.04 version of the game.
Then copy that patched version and rename it I.E. (1) " Dangerous Waters RAMOD v1_36 ",
and (2) " Dangerous WatersLWAMI 3_11 ".
After patching the original, save the .REG file from the registry- you will need
a .REG file for each different version of the game. One for R.A., LWAMI, AlfaTau, and Millsab.
Each different version should have a different name and folder

This is my RA 136 REG entry. Notice where the folder names are altered.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\Dangerous Waters]
"DisplayName"="Dangerous Waters"
"Language"="English"
"CD Drive"="D:\\"
"Install Dir"="C:\\GAMES\\SONALY~1\\DANGER~1"
"Product GUID"="{DCFF5D9C-C618-45C9-A61E-14A6981F28C6}"
"Installed From"="D:\\"
"Region"="NA"
"Folder"="Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous Waters"
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\Dangerous Waters\1.0]
"DisplayName"="Dangerous Waters"
"Language"=dword:00000001
"LanguageName"="English"
"rootInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous Waters RAMOD v1_36"
"cdInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous Waters RAMOD v1_36"
"scenarioInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous Waters RAMOD v1_36"
"dbInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous Waters RAMOD v1_36"
"interfaceInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous Waters RAMOD v1_36\\Interfaces"
"graphicsInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous Waters RAMOD v1_36\\Graphics"
"sfxInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous Waters RAMOD v1_36\\Audio\\Sfx\\sfx.agg+"
"musicInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous Waters RAMOD v1_36\\Audio\\Music"
"cinematicInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous Waters RAMOD v1_36\\Cinematic"
"aLetter"="e"
"buildNumber"=dword:0000017a

for LWAMI you need a similar setup.

2) in order to mod the game you have to set up the games-folder name, and APPLY the different reg files
before you "MOD" the game.
In other words copy the patched 1.04 and rename to either LWAMI-11, or RA-136, then modify a .REG file for each version, then run the version of the .REG file for the mod you are about to install or the mod will not install properly.
3) To run the version you want, first run the .REG file to get the correct "PATHs" into the registry, then
start your game.

This is my LWAM-11 REG entry.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\Dangerous Waters]
"DisplayName"="Dangerous Waters"
"Language"="English"
"CD Drive"="D:\\"
"Install Dir"="C:\\GAMES\\SONALY~1\\DANGER~1"
"Product GUID"="{DCFF5D9C-C618-45C9-A61E-14A6981F28C6}"
"Installed From"="D:\\"
"Region"="NA"
"Folder"="Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous Waters"
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\Dangerous Waters\1.0]
"DisplayName"="Dangerous Waters"
"Language"=dword:00000001
"LanguageName"="English"
"rootInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous WatersLWAMI 3_11"
"cdInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous WatersLWAMI 3_11"
"scenarioInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous WatersLWAMI 3_11"
"dbInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous WatersLWAMI 3_11"
"interfaceInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous WatersLWAMI 3_11\\Interfaces"
"graphicsInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous WatersLWAMI 3_11\\Graphics"
"sfxInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous WatersLWAMI 3_11\\Audio\\Sfx\\sfx.agg+"
"musicInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous WatersLWAMI 3_11\\Audio\\Music"
"cinematicInstallPath"="C:\\GAMES\\Sonalysts Combat Simulations\\Dangerous WatersLWAMI 3_11\\Cinematic"
"aLetter"="e"
"buildNumber"=dword:0000017a

[King_Zog]

Thanks Zander, some good information there. I'll see if I can do something similar with the steam version of the game.