The Renewable Energy Neither Candidate is Talking About

[Betonov]

There's a major renewable energy technology that neither presidential candidate is talking about, and it happens to be the one most popular with voters: The wood-burning stove. And though I believe the future of this country lies in aggressively producing more renewable energy, any strategy here should include modern wood stoves, not exclude them.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...GE&spr_id=2718


We have a wood powered central heating system at home and I found this article interesting for the entire world, not just the US.
At least for wooded countries.
Our yearly heating bill (~€500) is less than half that of the neighbour, that uses heating oil and solar heating panels.

[Takeda Shingen]

How much wood does your household go through in a winter? Multiply that by every household in the nation. On top of that, how long does it take a sappling to grow into a harvestable tree?

It's not all that renewable.

[Betonov]

A birch tree can be ripe for chopping in 20-30 years.
But you wont believe how much firewood you get from one tree.

I own 5 hectares of forrest. It has enough birch trees ripe for chopping to heat my home for 5 winters. In that time enough birches will grow to the desirable size to cut them for another 5 winters and so on and so on...

Slovenia has 1.816.000 hectares of forests, about 58% of the entire country. Enough firewood to heat 1.000.000 homes (counting out the industry aplicable wood) per winter. In a country of 2.000.000 people we have enough to export.

Of course, lets be real. Wood burning only really works in rural areas and sub-urbs. One fammily houses. But its enough to shift oil and gas consumption from half the population.
And Texas or Spain would also be an exception here.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Betonov

A birch tree can be ripe for chopping in 20-30 years.
But you wont believe how much firewood you get from one tree.

I own 5 hectares of forrest. It has enough birch trees ripe for chopping to heat my home for 5 winters. In that time enough birches will grow to the desirable size to cut them for another 5 winters and so on and so on...

Slovenia has 1.816.000 hectares of forests, about 58% of the entire country. Enough firewood to heat 1.000.000 homes (counting out the industry aplicable wood) per winter. In a country of 2.000.000 people we have enough to export.

Of course, lets be real. Wood burning only really works in rural areas and sub-urbs. One fammily houses. But its enough to shift oil and gas consumption from half the population.
And Texas or Spain would also be an exception here.

I know how much firewood you can get from one tree. It all depends on the size of said tree. Here's a good estimate from the University of New Hampshire:

http://extension.unh.edu/resources/f...44_Rep1200.pdf

The age of the tree can be estimated using diameter as noted by the Missouri Department of Conservation:

http://mdc.mo.gov/landwater-care/hom...s/how-old-tree

I buy one cord of wood for the fireplace in my home, and we go through that entire cord by spring only burning recreationally. My bet is that if I heated my home with a wood stove, I'd need at least 4 cords, and probably more like 6-8. For the sake of argument, let's pick a very small number; say two cords per household seasonally.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Census data puts the number of households in the US at 114,235,996. We'll round down for expediency's sake and say 114 million. If 1/4th of all US households switched to wood heat that would be 28.5 million households. At two cords per household that is 57 million cords of wood, requiring approximately 2.85 billion 5" diameter trees seasonally. Each 5" diameter tree requires 25 years to mature.

No, it's not at all sustainable in large scale. That's why no one is talking about it.

[Platapus]

Can Bamboo be made in to a product that can be used in such stoves?

[mapuc]

Another thing you should also have in mind is the woods heat coefficient

or heat capacity


http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sp...ids-d_154.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity

Markus

[Betonov]

My bet is that if I heated my home with a wood stove, I'd need at least 4 cords, and probably more like 6-8.

1 cord is 3,62 m3. we use 2-3 cords of wood per winter to heat our home. I don't understand where you burn 8 cords of wood unles you live in a warehouse.

Depends on the stove actually. I'm talking about a modern wood burner you light up and stock like a old school stove, but has much better insulation and heats the house by heating water for the radiators, not by radiating it into the room. Even when the fire dies down, the amber heats the water and even when amber turns to ash there's enough hot water in the system to heat the house for another couple of hours.


OK, if were talking about the USA, we can leave out California, Texas, Florida and all other warmer states. You can half the amount of homes that will go for wood heating.
So now we need 1.43 billion trees per year. Average density of forrests in Slovenia is somewhere between 500 and 600 trees per hectare* and roughly guessing one fifth of them is over 5'' diameter in a area of 1.816.000ha, so that is 200 million or more trees. A country smaller than New Jersey would provide one seventh of your needs and still wouldn't resort to clear cutting. One tenth for argument sake, there's to much variables.

And you don't have only 5'' and saplings in one hectare, you have mixed sizes. Trees that are too small this year will be good next year and so on.

It's not a solution, but can ease the problems. A tree grows 25 years, oil or coal needs millions.

*page 33
http://www.digitalna-knjiznica.bf.un..._uros&ines.pdf

[em2nought]

Paulownia is a hardwood that can be harvested in about eight years, or so they say. We'll see, the tallest one for me in one season was about twelve feet so far.

Sounds better as something to put money into than this BS

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Betonov

And you don't have only 5'' and saplings in one hectare, you have mixed sizes. Trees that are too small this year will be good next year and so on.

I used the 5 inch diameter due to the fact that it only takes 25 years. Those 22 inchers take a century to grow, which only excacerbates the supply problem if you are going to wait to harvest them.

Assuming what you said is correct about 200 million trees, that does not even come close to compensating for the necessary consumption of 2.85 billion required to supply one quarter of American families with 2 cords per season. North America would be completely deforested within a decade.

[August]

I burn between 3-4 cords a year and it keeps my oil consumption down to 1 tank (200 gallons) per year, mostly for hot water. Seasoned cord wood around here goes for anywhere between $200 and $250 each. I could probably save a cord if I were to replace my 1970's vintage stove with something more modern.

[Betonov]

You're right Takeda, It would be too much deforestation to heat 1/4 of US homes. But you don't need to heat 1/4 of US homes with wood.

The mistakes everyone makes with renewable enrgy is the belief that there's one universal solution. You won't get anywhere with just one type. You put more solutions into the problem.

You heat 500 000 homes with wood, you get 500 000 homes away from oil/gas consumption. New England, Maine, Montana, Canada would benefit due to large wood stocks and low sunlight/wind.
Texas doesn't need wood stoves, that wouldn't be smart. Texas, Nevada, sunny states would get 1.000.000 homes into solar power, 1M homes away from oil/gas and not one tree needs to be chopped to heat them.

Tecnology in wood burning has improved since the homestead stoves. A hectare can heat a small town or village. Funrniture industry waste can be turned into pellets or briquetes and one factory can heat the homes of their employes with that leftovers.

Renewable energy is taking gradual steps. One home with solar power, another with wind power, a third with wood and you've already cut fossil fuel dependence to 3 fammilies.

[August]

Originally Posted by Betonov

You're right Takeda, It would be too much deforestation to heat 1/4 of US homes. But you don't need to heat 1/4 of US homes with wood.

The mistakes everyone makes with renewable enrgy is the belief that there's one universal solution. You won't get anywhere with just one type. You put more solutions into the problem.

You heat 500 000 homes with wood, you get 500 000 homes away from oil/gas consumption. New England, Maine, Montana, Canada would benefit due to large wood stocks and low sunlight/wind.
Texas doesn't need wood stoves, that wouldn't be smart. Texas, Nevada, sunny states would get 1.000.000 homes into solar power, 1M homes away from oil/gas and not one tree needs to be chopped to heat them.

Tecnology in wood burning has improved since the homestead stoves. A hectare can heat a small town or village. Funrniture industry waste can be turned into pellets or briquetes and one factory can heat the homes of their employes with that leftovers.

Renewable energy is taking gradual steps. One home with solar power, another with wind power, a third with wood and you've already cut fossil fuel dependence to 3 fammilies.

Well said.

Besides wood is the only heating fuel that warms you twice. When you burn it and before when you cut, split and stack it.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Betonov

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...GE&spr_id=2718


We have a wood powered central heating system at home and I found this article interesting for the entire world, not just the US.
At least for wooded countries.
Our yearly heating bill (~€500) is less than half that of the neighbour, that uses heating oil and solar heating panels.

They've got that here (kinda), it's called bio-mass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomass

I guess what they do here is clean out the forest floor of the debris and convert it to bio mass. The debris they remove helps prevent forest fires, or something like that. It seems like a good idea, because they are not cutting down new trees. I'm not sure how large of a population this will support though.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by August

Well said.

Besides wood is the only heating fuel that warms you twice. When you burn it and before when you cut, split and stack it.

It's a great fitness program.

[yubba]

seen this a while back thought I wouldn't find it,,a novel idea...