Escorts are dumb

Zanarkin · 08-14-12, 01:02 PM

I amused myself last night by trying something different. I was shadowing a large escorted convoy and I couldn't manage to sneak into the middle due to their high travel speed and observant escorts despite the heavy fog. Attacking from the outside of the pack was impossible because visibility was nil.

Anyway, if a escort detected me as I attempted to sneak into the pack I dove deep and ran silent until they sped away back to the pack but this was getting me nowhere. I decided to purposely pull the escorts to me so I went to periscope depth and hit flank speed. This immediately drew all the escorts to me but they were all varying distances away so they came at me one at a time.

With the fog and my periscope low to the water line they never fired their cannons but instead charged me for depth charge runs. This made point blank firing of torpedoes straight into them extremely easy. One by one they came and one by one I sunk them waiting to fire until they were at the bare minimum distance so evading fast torpedoes were impossible; the last going down from a stern torpedo.

So with the escorts gone (6 in total) I surfaced and my gun crew picked off as many merchant ships as they could as I spent all my torps on others. I sank about 9 or 10 I believe. So about 16 ships in all from one U-Boat during one attack lol.

This is with the improved AI mod mind you. I felt pretty bleh about it all because playing non realistically netted almost a entire convoy whereas playing realistically would have brought in maybe one ship before I gave up due to bad weather and escorts listening overhead for hours while the convoy speeds away.

It was fun while I was doing it but I felt unaccomplished as I made for port with zero shells or torps left. I'm afraid now that I have unlocked this Pandora's box knowledge that I will be unable not to do it again cheapening my experience.

Was this just luck or common inferior AI? I'm at work so don't have my mod list but it's the usuals out there from Darkwrath and Open Horizons, etc.

Zanarkin · 08-21-12, 09:06 AM

I'm finding the AI is pretty lackluster, even with the improved AI mod. Last night I found myself ahead of a warship convoy heading my way in broad day light. I turned the boat around to face due south, sat dead in the water at periscope depth and waited.

Once the two heavy cruisers in the middle of the pack got just within range of my electric torpedoes I fired two at each and then dove to 150 meters and reversed course. The heavy cruisers sank and what must have been 8 escorts, a light cruiser, and 1 other heavy cruiser started searching for me.

All the ships were on top of me, pinging me, and I just kept my constant course running silent. I then just fast forwarded time to like 256X and watched as the contacts shuffled all around, dropping charges left and right rocking my boat (no damage) until they eventually left me alone a few hours later despite pinging me and following my course the entire time.

Is this the 'insta win' scenario? Dive to 150 meters, hold your course and silent speed, and keep going until you bore them? They had me all day long and the keel was below measurable depths. There was such a traffic jam up on the surface that I think all the emergency maneuvering, full reversing, and I think even hitting each other (the external cam showed one cruiser on fire for some reason lol) is how I got away. They were so busy dodging each other that they lost me.

Second time in a row this has worked. Would the same thing have happened if I had not sped up time?

topper6 · 08-21-12, 10:30 AM

I'm wondering if there is an ammo limit on the destroyers or do they have an infinite amount of depth charges? Can you sit them out waiting for them to deplete their ammo and then engage them? Do they call for reinforcements if they run out of ammo (if they can run out of ammo)?

08-21-12, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper6

I'm wondering if there is an ammo limit on the destroyers or do they have an infinite amount of depth charges? Can you sit them out waiting for them to deplete their ammo and then engage them? Do they call for reinforcements if they run out of ammo (if they can run out of ammo)?

yes they do have ammo limits and when out of ammo they still make runs at you as normal but they dont drop anything. the ammo is restored to full capacity if you reload the game like from a save or if you get out of contact range then reconnect such as if you run ahead of convoy on the surface to re-engage them again.

i think they do get assistance sent to them if there is any around but i think thats done normally and has nothing to do with ammo but im not 100% sure on that.

often what is thought to be stupid actions by DD is them following the orders they were given which were designed to keep you "low and slow" giving the convoys time to escape. they are primary there to get the convoy out safely and not to sink you because you are discovered. search and destroy isnt the primary job of escorts, evasion and maximum survival of the convoy is.

Zanarkin · 08-21-12, 03:45 PM

Thanks for explaining what I saw as dumb AI. It did cross my mind about depleted ammo or chasing me away as their primary goal and not sinking me but I figured that was 'too smart' of the AI lol.

Now, them crashing into each other and sometimes literally sinking each other trying to swarm up and depth charge me...that is dumb but even that has been known to happen based on some historic attack report military documents I've read (cross fire and such) but I don't think the AI was programmed to historically correct collide with each other because they all want to do a depth charge run at the same time lol.

I will say that they do chase me off but mostly because I got what I came for - not because they intimidated me.

I've had one of two things play out when I attack a merchant:

1. One escort is dispatched to handle me as the others remain with the convoy. I can take on one escort and torpedo it at point blank range as it proceeds a depth charge/ram my scope attack run. Once it's sunk, another escort is dispatched as the others remain with the convoy. Rinse repeat until every escort is sunk and the merchants are a shooting gallery for my deck gun unopposed.

2. Every single warship is dispatched and it's a cluster fudge of merchants swerving to avoid them as they flank to my position. I see up to a dozen warships bearing down on me and quickly dive deep and run silent and watch with the external cam as they hit each other, reverse the engines with collision alarms sounding, playing bumper cars with each other as I sing "Trollololllooollollolllollololol" as I pudder along to safety. Usually my map reflects at least one grey sunk icon indicating one of the warships was sunk by their own guys.

08-21-12, 06:54 PM

the game has issue coordinating ships and they have sort of a remote AI of each ship on their own to try and act and react as individuals so thats why they tend to run over each other, they have no concept of waiting their turn and such.

also on occassion when you attack a task force you may get a light cruiser join the DDs making passes at you like they are DD or something but they are the only warship i have seen with that glitch

08-14-12, 01:02 PM	#1
Zanarkin Seaman Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 32 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Escorts are dumb I amused myself last night by trying something different. I was shadowing a large escorted convoy and I couldn't manage to sneak into the middle due to their high travel speed and observant escorts despite the heavy fog. Attacking from the outside of the pack was impossible because visibility was nil. Anyway, if a escort detected me as I attempted to sneak into the pack I dove deep and ran silent until they sped away back to the pack but this was getting me nowhere. I decided to purposely pull the escorts to me so I went to periscope depth and hit flank speed. This immediately drew all the escorts to me but they were all varying distances away so they came at me one at a time. With the fog and my periscope low to the water line they never fired their cannons but instead charged me for depth charge runs. This made point blank firing of torpedoes straight into them extremely easy. One by one they came and one by one I sunk them waiting to fire until they were at the bare minimum distance so evading fast torpedoes were impossible; the last going down from a stern torpedo. So with the escorts gone (6 in total) I surfaced and my gun crew picked off as many merchant ships as they could as I spent all my torps on others. I sank about 9 or 10 I believe. So about 16 ships in all from one U-Boat during one attack lol. This is with the improved AI mod mind you. I felt pretty bleh about it all because playing non realistically netted almost a entire convoy whereas playing realistically would have brought in maybe one ship before I gave up due to bad weather and escorts listening overhead for hours while the convoy speeds away. It was fun while I was doing it but I felt unaccomplished as I made for port with zero shells or torps left. I'm afraid now that I have unlocked this Pandora's box knowledge that I will be unable not to do it again cheapening my experience. Was this just luck or common inferior AI? I'm at work so don't have my mod list but it's the usuals out there from Darkwrath and Open Horizons, etc.

08-21-12, 09:06 AM	#2
Zanarkin Seaman Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 32 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	I'm finding the AI is pretty lackluster, even with the improved AI mod. Last night I found myself ahead of a warship convoy heading my way in broad day light. I turned the boat around to face due south, sat dead in the water at periscope depth and waited. Once the two heavy cruisers in the middle of the pack got just within range of my electric torpedoes I fired two at each and then dove to 150 meters and reversed course. The heavy cruisers sank and what must have been 8 escorts, a light cruiser, and 1 other heavy cruiser started searching for me. All the ships were on top of me, pinging me, and I just kept my constant course running silent. I then just fast forwarded time to like 256X and watched as the contacts shuffled all around, dropping charges left and right rocking my boat (no damage) until they eventually left me alone a few hours later despite pinging me and following my course the entire time. Is this the 'insta win' scenario? Dive to 150 meters, hold your course and silent speed, and keep going until you bore them? They had me all day long and the keel was below measurable depths. There was such a traffic jam up on the surface that I think all the emergency maneuvering, full reversing, and I think even hitting each other (the external cam showed one cruiser on fire for some reason lol) is how I got away. They were so busy dodging each other that they lost me. Second time in a row this has worked. Would the same thing have happened if I had not sped up time?

08-21-12, 10:30 AM	#3
topper6 Watch Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 21 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	I'm wondering if there is an ammo limit on the destroyers or do they have an infinite amount of depth charges? Can you sit them out waiting for them to deplete their ammo and then engage them? Do they call for reinforcements if they run out of ammo (if they can run out of ammo)?

08-21-12, 03:45 PM	#5
Zanarkin Seaman Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 32 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Thanks for explaining what I saw as dumb AI. It did cross my mind about depleted ammo or chasing me away as their primary goal and not sinking me but I figured that was 'too smart' of the AI lol. Now, them crashing into each other and sometimes literally sinking each other trying to swarm up and depth charge me...that is dumb but even that has been known to happen based on some historic attack report military documents I've read (cross fire and such) but I don't think the AI was programmed to historically correct collide with each other because they all want to do a depth charge run at the same time lol. I will say that they do chase me off but mostly because I got what I came for - not because they intimidated me. I've had one of two things play out when I attack a merchant: 1. One escort is dispatched to handle me as the others remain with the convoy. I can take on one escort and torpedo it at point blank range as it proceeds a depth charge/ram my scope attack run. Once it's sunk, another escort is dispatched as the others remain with the convoy. Rinse repeat until every escort is sunk and the merchants are a shooting gallery for my deck gun unopposed. 2. Every single warship is dispatched and it's a cluster fudge of merchants swerving to avoid them as they flank to my position. I see up to a dozen warships bearing down on me and quickly dive deep and run silent and watch with the external cam as they hit each other, reverse the engines with collision alarms sounding, playing bumper cars with each other as I sing "Trollololllooollollolllollololol" as I pudder along to safety. Usually my map reflects at least one grey sunk icon indicating one of the warships was sunk by their own guys.

08-21-12, 06:54 PM	#6
Webster Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	the game has issue coordinating ships and they have sort of a remote AI of each ship on their own to try and act and react as individuals so thats why they tend to run over each other, they have no concept of waiting their turn and such. also on occassion when you attack a task force you may get a light cruiser join the DDs making passes at you like they are DD or something but they are the only warship i have seen with that glitch