Could use a suggestion or two.

[Bothersome]

OK my current mission has me photographing a cruiser or something at some port with about 8 ships trying to keep me away. Got in twice and crashed to desktop both times as I got near the target. Second time in they took advantage of my hurriedness and I almost didn't get away from Davy's Locker. 3 aft torpedo tubes destroyed and flooding in the aft torpedo room at 450 feet is a bitch to get fixed. Boat was dragging at more than 20 degree up bubble. Along with a few other small damages that got fixed. But I finally managed to escape 3 of those Jap sub hunters and made off to deeper water to try again after repairs and pumping out the water. Finally made it to target area and crash to desktop. Running TMO 2.5 and OTC 1.5 for TMO.

But that's just to get you into what's on my mind at the moment...

I do have a question I'd like to pose to the more seasonned sub skippers out there.

I'd like to know what would be the best approach to a 2 x 2 merchant convoy with 3 or 4 escorts. 1 leading and 1 each side with 1 following the convoy. In a diamond shape. The merchants are in a square formation 550 yards apart. Is there a best approach angle that would allow me to shoot at two (or more if you know how) merchants and have the torpedoes impact at roughly the same time?

What I've got so far (for example an 11 knot appoaching convoy)... Ahead of the convoy and angled at 45 degrees into the path line of the closest aproaching merchant and off to one side about 2000 yards. I pre-calculate a firing angle for the following merchant at 40 AoB, Bearing to target will be 355 degrees and 3100 yards. These are with 31 knot torps by the way. I pre-calulate the leading merchant at a 50 degree AoB with at a Bearing of 5 degrees at a range of 2600 yards. I set up for the following merchant first and press the fire button when the juicy bits cross the line. Then set up for leading merchant and press the fire button when its juicy bits cross the line. But I only have 20 seconds to set that up and get the torps moving.

The problem is that the pre-set courses are set up for a 20 second delay for firing on the second merchant (the one in the lead position). If you take longer than 20 seconds, you're gonna have to re-calc or use the active TDC to make the second shots on the lead merchant. The benefit of this solution is that if you want to attack the far line instead of the closes line, then you can get torp into it without the closest merchants seeing the bubbles and causing an alert. And of course, the purpose for this "double attack" is to get the hits at roughly the same time (within a few seconds). So my question is, Is there an easier way?

One question I always had was, in the real world, did they not have a way to program the course of one torpedo and a different course for another topedo without all the re-programming for the second topedo after you have launched the first one?

Is that clear as muddy water?

[TorpX]

You're covering a lot of ground here.

First, I don't do harbor raiding, as the game has a lot of flaws in this area. So I can't help you there.

As far as ideal approaches is concerned, I would say much depends on the quality of the escorts. TMO is famous for having hard escorts, so there might not be any easy way to do want you want to do. Early war you should have an easier time of it. In most cases, you want to be out ahead of the convoy so you can conduct your approach without having to make rushed and noisy manuevers.

I would point out that RL USN skippers did not think in terms of an ideal AoB, but rather in terms of an optimum torpedo track angle. Generally, this was around 110 deg. depending on target and torpedo speed. From what you've described, you are trying for a TTA of near 50 degrees. This is not optimum.

One question I always had was, in the real world, did they not have a way to program the course of one torpedo and a different course for another topedo without all the re-programming for the second topedo after you have launched the first one?

The TDC did not have that capability. It could set gyros for both bow and stern torpedos at the same time, for the same target, but programming a solution for multiple targets was not possible. I believe they could preset a offset angle in advance, to use a spread, but this is not what you are talking about.

I'm not that big a fan of trying to get multiple targets (simultaneously). It is not that it can't be done, but that the difficulties are much greater. It doesn't help that the ships in SH 4 can dart around like asian carp. If you are playing in a realistic fashion, and haven't thoroughly mastered the relevent skills, you will likely have more misses than hits. If you sink one ship, and can break contact, you can ofter do an end around and try for another.

Interesting qustions though.

[merc4ulfate]

Target the merchant that is farther away first. This will allow you time to set your next shot while the first set of fish travel towards their target. This extra time can also allow you to hit both ships fairly close together at the same time. Since your targeting the farther ship first the lead time can help all fish to get to multiple targets at the same time. This has worked with me for merchants and warships.

If you can set your set up in front of the convoy, set up your position where you wish to be. shut down your engines, go to silent running and make like a hole in the water. Depending on sea state and escort sensor operator knowledge they sometimes will not even know your their until after you have fired.

If they do hear you first you still have a chance to fire, then crash dive below test test, engineers are always conservative on paper, then all quiet angled 45 degrees away. Depending on the course of the convoy I sometimes will angle towards the convoy so they run over my position while the escorts are searching at my last known position where they could hear me.

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crashing to desktop ... just a guess but may be a bad installation?? Do you have SH4 somewhere else other than c/program files?

[boonie]

this is my standard approach to tackling task force, facing their direction or opposite direction doesnt matter much. The leading heavy cruiser T1 is always shot at first, then immediately lock T2 and hammer away at the TDC settings and get a good setting asap.

with proctice on TDC now i can shoot at both the target with fast torp settings, before this i have to shot at T1 using slow torp and T2 using fast torp to allow time to set TDC.

After both ships are fired at using 2-3 torp each (depends, Takao usually need just 2, Mogami needs 3, usually). I will lock T3 and see how it reacts to the ensuing chaos, most of the time the surrounding dessies/merchants will go ape****s and block its way, thats a good time to lob in some opportunity shots with front or tail tubes.

some destroyers that presents itself nice enough (or threatening enough) will get it also, some of them has nice tonnage. (2300-2700ton).

having crews with nice competance (nice stats) and setting silent runnning + battlestation do help to make the boat stealthier somewhat despite being at full stop. Setting silent running will stop them auto-reloading which is not good at enemy presence.

In this game the destroyer seems not being able to detect you so well when u are at periscope depth and at full stop. Not sure about this at later point in the war though (havent reached that part yet).

after all fish are delivered i dive straight to max depth before turning on 0.5 or 1 knot to slip away.

[boonie]

i am not sure how much noise will be generated from torpedo reloading. It used to be pretty desasterous in SH3+GWX, they can hear it 5000m away it seems. not sure about sh4+mods..

[merc4ulfate]

I'd be targeting the merchants not the heavy cruiser. Assuming your have a boat with six forward and four aft tubes I would be aiming for the three merchants at the top and farthest away first. Sure you might hit a DD sure you might hit a heavy C but at your angle I would fire all ten fish as fast as possible.


merchant row 1 *** (5th, 2 fish) *** (2ND, 2fish) ***(1st, 2 fish)


merchant row 2 *** *** (4th, 2 fish) ***(3rd 2 fish)


I put your chance of sinking three ships at high and crippling two others either merchants or DD's.

Once you have fired all ten dive deep below test depth while deploying decoys and go to silent running. Turn into the convoy not away. I like to do this because I know the DD's have to reverse or go around merchants in the way and I like to hide under stationary merchants who have not sank.

Yes I know I am insane. yeah for me

[Hylander_1314]

It only works when decoys become available, but also, turning into the mass of ships is a good tactic anyways, as it usually points you in the direction the DDs are coming from, giving them the smallest target to get a lock on. Getting down deep is also a good thing as it combined with the other ships helps to mask your sound.

A good thing too, as long as there is no trailing DD off the back of the convoy or task force, is to head that direction once you are in the middle of them. I have escaped many time doing just that.

[boonie]

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

I'd be targeting the merchants not the heavy cruiser. Assuming your have a boat with six forward and four aft tubes I would be aiming for the three merchants at the top and farthest away first. Sure you might hit a DD sure you might hit a heavy C but at your angle I would fire all ten fish as fast as possible.


merchant row 1 *** (5th, 2 fish) *** (2ND, 2fish) ***(1st, 2 fish)


merchant row 2 *** *** (4th, 2 fish) ***(3rd 2 fish)


I put your chance of sinking three ships at high and crippling two others either merchants or DD's.

Once you have fired all ten dive deep below test depth while deploying decoys and go to silent running. Turn into the convoy not away. I like to do this because I know the DD's have to reverse or go around merchants in the way and I like to hide under stationary merchants who have not sank.

Yes I know I am insane. yeah for me

The typical task force that employ this formation in sh4 + FOTRS seems to typically only have small troop transport (1700ton) purely as their merchant composition.. thats why i dont aim for them.. too small and sometimes they have the audacity of not sinking after 1 torp despite only 1.7k ton... wherelse the heavy cruisers all range from 9000ton (maya, mogami) onwards to 15000ton (takao) and if u land 3 torp on 1 its a guaranteed kill (i havent seen any heavy cruiser that can take 3 and live). Plus aiming just 2 target per attack is all i am capable of within the time frame (before they see torps and go nuts with thier steering).

Will try out slow boating to the middle of the pack after delivering my fish next time. but they very seldom detect me using that tactic i put earlier anyway. THey have this tendency to park 1 destroyer near where the ship sink to hold me down and let the others travel some distance. Very annoying and it ensures that i have to chase a great distance after this destroyer make a break and rejoins the main body.

Tried to kill it sometimes when i still have fish loaded in tubes but they have this bunny hop acceleration thing that dodge torp very easily.