Obama angers Poles with 'death camp' remark

[Gerald]

President Barack Obama has caused an outcry in Poland after referring to a Nazi death camp as "Polish".

He made the remark at a ceremony in which he posthumously awarded Polish resistance fighter Jan Karski with the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

The White House says Mr Obama "misspoke" and regrets the comment but prominent Poles want an apology.

Poles suffered a brutal Nazi wartime occupation and reject any suggestion of responsibility for Nazi crimes.

Poles are particularly sensitive to comments linking their country to the Holocaust.

For years, they have objected to any description of Nazi German death camps as "Polish" because it can indicate involvement in the mass murder of millions of European Jews in camps built on their land.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18264036

Note: 30 May 2012 Last updated at 15:43 GMT

[kranz]

ok, let's continue it here: (a separate thread=more attention=more fun)

Four years ago Obama was boasting that his uncle took part in liberation of the Auschwitz concentration camp.
Obviously it was not Auschwitz (liberated by the soviets) but Buchenwald.
So, Obama's uncle liberated the prisoners from Polish hands, right?

[BossMark]

Went to Auschwitz a few years ago it was the most harrowing, moving and upsetting place that I have been to , but to be honest I was glad that I went.
6 of us walked in and for nearly 3 hours not one us spoke a word

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by kranz

Four years ago Obama was boasting that his uncle took part in liberation of the Auschwitz concentration camp.
Obviously it was not Auschwitz (liberated by the soviets) but Buchenwald.
So, Obama's uncle liberated the prisoners from Polish hands, right?

There's so much Obama not american conspiracies, that his uncle had to be a soviet

[vienna]

There's so much Obama not american conspiracies, that his uncle had to be a soviet

Do you mean Obama has a Ruskie birth certificate? Dang, the birthers have been looking at the wrong country...

...

[nikimcbee]

Everybody knows the warmongering Poles attack the peace loving Germans in 1939. Fortunately, the World was saved by the bamster and his uncle with the aide of the peace-loving soviets. They blessed Poland with a superior economic system.

Now Poland can participate in democracy and human rights for all peoples (living and dead) by joining Obama's 57 States of amerika.

Vote for Poland as the 58th state!

ok, let's continue it here: (a separate thread=more attention=more fun)

OK then.....

Yes, I would. Simply bcoz there is no such a nation as "Yugoslavians". It was an abuse done by Tito.

That makes no sense.

Wiki clearly states who is responsible for the atrocities which took place there- Croatian Ustashe. There is no need to generalize about it.

However, does wiki clearly state who was reponsible for the camps in Poland just like it does with the camps in Yugoslavia, Russia or Germany?

[kranz]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

That makes no sense.

for you it definitely does not, since you look at a communist map and say: hey, come he says there are no "Yugoslavians" and "Yugoslavia" while the map says otherwise?
The German government has forced some regulation that the labour and concentration camps of the war period should not be called "German concentration camps" but "Nazi concentration camps" (as if all Germans left Germany after 1933, and came back in 1945...) but if you aim at this argument you are not even close.
If you want to call Jasenovac a "Yugoslavian camp" I guess you can do it from a purely geographical point of view, as it was placed in former Yugoslavia. But historically it is wrong since it has been documented who was responsible for establishing the camp and being in charge of it.
If Serbs are considered to be Yugoslavians, then by saying "Yugoslavian camp" you imply what? That Serbs were killing Serbs?

Originally Posted by Tribesman

However, does wiki clearly state who was reponsible for the camps in Poland just like it does with the camps in Yugoslavia, Russia or Germany?

I don't get it.
I would leave Yugoslavia aside, it's a slippery "area".
But the rest: Poland, Russia and Germany are pretty clear to me.
If Obama meant to say "death camp in Poland" he could have said that.
"Polish death camp" has already been used several times and is known for making trouble to the speaker/writer. It implies something which is historically incorrect.
Maybe you have heard of some mysterious "Polish camps"?

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by kranz

I would leave Yugoslavia aside, it's a slippery "area".

There was a nation called Yugoslavia once. Until Tito died. The states were more closly knittted than the states in the US. But after 1980 there was no more a Yugoslav nationality.

Polish means something from Poland, made by Polish, a Polish death camp is a death camp run by Polish personel.
In Poland means something in Poland. Auschwitz is in Poland, but not Polish.

A mistake by Obama, but with all the high payed advisor one that is an embaresement they didn't avoid

for you it definitely does not, since you look at a communist map and say:

That makes even less sense.

If Serbs are considered to be Yugoslavians, then by saying "Yugoslavian camp" you imply what? That Serbs were killing Serbs?

No, the only implication is about the location

I don't get it.

If it is clear about the polish camps in that source and is equally clear about all the other camps in all the other locations then what is the complaint?

Polish death camp" has already been used several times and is known for making trouble to the speaker/writer. It implies something which is historically incorrect.

It isn't incorrect and it is a long running issue which some polish people and politicians have been complaining about, even down to complaining about the world poland or polish in the literature, plaques and educational lectures at the memorial sites now.

Maybe you have heard of some mysterious "Polish camps"?

[Dan D]

Here is a German language memory hook:

Was ist der größte "Witz" in der Geschichte der Menschheit?
What is the biggest joke in the history of mankind?

“Auschwitz“ ; -“witz” (German for joke)“

(Georg Tabori: Hungarian-German Jewish dramatist who lost most of his family to death camps)

[kranz]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

It isn't incorrect and it is a long running issue which some polish people and politicians have been complaining about, even down to complaining about the world poland or polish in the literature, plaques and educational lectures at the memorial sites now.

so tell me why it isn't incorrect.

[Skybird]

Storm in a waterglass. Everybody knows what he meant, and some just take the opportunity to get a show started once again. Like Romney's app lately spelling America as "Amercia". Big deal.

The nearby town makes a nice living by running the "museum". It is an economic factor and income generator. Postcards, souvernirs, shuttle services - if you got coins, of course.

Now this is what should make some people grumble.

German commentator Broder, a German Jew with Polish roots, dispises it and calls it a Disneyland of death, recommending to flatten the whole site and use the ground for some better purpose, instead of wasting money for maintaining the installation. When being questioned about his visit there, he remarked that the restaurant there serves some very delicous food. So says somebody who has lost relatives in KZs.

^ My sentiments exactly. But I have not been a museum guy, never, anyway.

[Skybird]

From the preface to Henryk Broder's: "Vergeßt Auschwitz!"

"Ich weiß, daß es eine verordnete Erinnerung ebenso wenig geben kann wie ein verordnetes Vergessen. Wenn es aber möglich wäre, zwischen Erinnern und Vergessen zu wählen, würde ich inzwischen das Vergessen vorziehen. So wie die Erinnerung heute praktiziert wird, ist sie eine Übung in Heuchelei und Verlogenheit, Scheinheiligkeit und Opportunismus. Und sie bereitet den Weg für kommende Katatrophen vor."

"I know that there can be no enacted remembrance like there can be no enacted unlearning/forgetting. But if it were possible to chose between both, I meanwhile have come to preferring the forgetting. The way remembrance is practiced today, it is an excerise in hypocrisy and phoniness, sanctimony and opportunism. And it prepares the path for the next disaster to unfold."

so tell me why it isn't incorrect.

1. location.
2. location.
3. location.