My state is trying to make laws un-repealable

[gimpy117]

yep, they keep attaching new $50,000 "appropriations" onto them so they cannot be voted upon by the people. The first law was one I actually like (not needed a price tag on every product) but the second and third have been pretty shady laws, one that is pretty much textbook Gerymandering and another that pretty much makes insurance companies able to barely pay for the care of people with traumatic injuries and paralysis I love my state government

http://michiganradio.org/post/how-st...eal-their-laws

[August]

I'm only going by the article but I would think that there's a distinction between paying existing bills and spending new money.

So what have you done about it? Have you communicated your displeasure with the way the law is being misused to your state representatives? Have you started or signed a petition demanding an end to it?

Squeaky wheel gets the oil you know.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

yep, they keep attaching new $50,000 "appropriations" onto them so they cannot be voted upon by the people. The first law was one I actually like (not needed a price tag on every product) but the second and third have been pretty shady laws, one that is pretty much textbook Gerymandering and another that pretty much makes insurance companies able to barely pay for the care of people with traumatic injuries and paralysis I love my state government

http://michiganradio.org/post/how-st...eal-their-laws

That is nothing compared to the ESM treaty they raise over here, the Euro Stability pact.

The treaty says that the board of directors secretely decides in secret meetings. Content of decisioons and their explanations must not be given, bot even the fact miust be given that a meeting took place. The board's members do not need to seek legitimation by European citizens and tax payers whose money gets sacked in (funds worth 1 trillion, rising). The board'ÄS members do not owe accountability to neither the general public or the people or the citizens. It can directly access sovereign nations's budgets and treasuries and milk them, it does not owe accountability over what the money is used for. The board is given the right to surpass, or better: to bypass nation'S parliaments, parliaments must not be informed and can demand nothing in explanation or decision altering. Also, it is ruled out that the board can be legally held responsible over anything, for anything, no matter what the damage, no matter what the decision in question. It is the invitation to rob and to act criminally with totall immunity from law, EU or national.

And finally - Germans are drunk in overjoy since they think it is a very fantasticc detaul - Germany's membership in the ESM mechanism is irredeemable, the right for germany or any nation to cancel its membership has been explicitly ruled out and denied. Germany cannot opt out once it has signed this declaration of oligarchy and dictatorship.

This is anti-transparency and anti-accountability of the worst possible kind. It is opening the German treasury for the greed and self-servicing of a secret organisation that can do what it wants and must not even make it's members known to those that get robbed. For states like Germany it means card blanche for others to milk it without limits, without scruples, without explanations, without knowledge by the German tax payer on what is going on, without the need to give any accoutnability to anyone, and that the german parliament is completely deprived of effective power- at least the remains of power that are still left.

It is dawning upon me since some months now that historically we have entered a new era. I understood that I needed to chnage the way I put events into a new bigger context, that it is not just about the derialing of a supranaational organisation, but that it is about somethign bigger, a chnage of cultural paradims. It is about entering a post-democratic era where the pendulum swings back from liberty and democracy and freedom to a new form of dictatorship and suppression where the governing tyrants can stay hidden and thus: invulnerable.

I also wonder if a community of 30+ states and with half a billion people ever could have seriousl hoped to be survivable as a working communal entity by rules of democratic principles.

Germany is close to fulfilling its always desired intention: the quest for successfully deconstructing ourselves will soon be completed. It will be a better world for sure!

Damn German romanticism.

[vienna]

What is intersting is the primary users of this ploy is the GOP members of the state government. C'mon GOP, stop shooting yourself in the foot all the time by using cheap, tawdry, and frankly, unnecessary gimmicks. If the GOP in that state should suddenly find themselves booted out by a justifiably angry electorate, they have no one to blame but themselves...

...

[August]

Originally Posted by vienna

What is intersting is the primary users of this ploy is the GOP members of the state government. C'mon GOP, stop shooting yourself in the foot all the time by using cheap, tawdry, and frankly, unnecessary gimmicks. If the GOP in that state should suddenly find themselves booted out by a justifiably angry electorate, they have no one to blame but themselves...

...

You mean cheap tawdry tricks like going on the lam to illegally subvert the peoples business like those Democrat state legislators did in Wisconsin last year?

Or how Democrats changed election law in Massachusetts to prevent then Republican Governor Romney from being able to elect an interm Republican senator to fill Kerrys seat if he had won the 2004 presidential election.

Or for that matter how Massachusetts Democrats changed the law back when Ted Kennedy died so that Democrat Governor Patrick could quickly elect an interm Democrat to replace him and preserve the US Senates super majority.

You mean those kind of cheap tawdry tricks?

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by August

You mean cheap tawdry tricks like going on the lam to illegally subvert the peoples business like those Democrat state legislators did in Wisconsin last year?

And like the Republicans did in California in the mid 90s?

[August]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

And like the Republicans did in California in the mid 90s?

Exactly my point. Both sides do it.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by August

Exactly my point. Both sides do it.

Indeed. Toss them all out.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by August

Exactly my point. Both sides do it.

well, i mean two wrongs don't make a right...and frankly here in Michigan Gov. Snyder had done some down right unconstitutional acts. It's reprehensible what happened with the Ted Kennedy seat....but frankly Snyder now has to power to dissolve elected governments that are "in financial crisis" and install un-elected apointees of his choosing. the law goes even so far as to say it's the treasurers right to start an investigation (that comes with a pretty long laundry list of things as to no allow escape) and then Snyder's final say if they remove the government or not. and now, they start gerrymandering and passing patsy laws for insurance companies

[August]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

well, i mean two wrongs don't make a right...and frankly here in Michigan Gov. Snyder had done some down right unconstitutional acts. It's reprehensible what happened with the Ted Kennedy seat....but frankly Snyder now has to power to dissolve elected governments that are "in financial crisis" and install un-elected apointees of his choosing. the law goes even so far as to say it's the treasurers right to start an investigation (that comes with a pretty long laundry list of things as to no allow escape) and then Snyder's final say if they remove the government or not. and now, they start gerrymandering and passing patsy laws for insurance companies

So again I ask. What have you done about it? I mean besides try to make yet another partisan politics thread here on Subsim that is...

yep, they keep attaching new $50,000 "appropriations" onto them so they cannot be voted upon by the people.

I am firmly of the opinion that a bill should only contain material relevant to the subject of that bill, tacking on other unrelated bits of legislation and funding is inherently wrong.

That is nothing compared to the ESM treaty they raise over here, the Euro Stability pact.

since Sky has declared that all treaties are worthless and meaningless his post on the ESM contains only worthless and meaningless complaints

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by August

So again I ask. What have you done about it? I mean besides try to make yet another partisan politics thread here on Subsim that is...

I've been signing petitions and recall petitions. and if there's a recall I'll vote. But pretty much all we can do now is sit here.

[August]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

I've been signing petitions and recall petitions. and if there's a recall I'll vote. But pretty much all we can do now is sit here.

There's always something else you can do if you care enough. Call your legislators, write them letters expressing your disapproval.

Politicians are creatures of popularity. They'll be looking with some trepidation at those petitions of course but they will also be also counting and lending more credence to constituents letters, especially originals. Form letters, emails and even petitions don't have the same impact.

[vienna]

It's interesting how, after my initial posting, the argument of "Well, they do it, too!", as stale as it is, jumped up again. Yes, both sides do it; all I wish is that somebody stand up against the stale political ploys of their party, and politics in general, and say "Enough!!" and expose how much harm the "business as usual" is to the wellbeing of the US. I wpuld vote for that person in a New York minute, regardless of which party he is representing...

...

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

yep, they keep attaching new $50,000 "appropriations" onto them so they cannot be voted upon by the people. The first law was one I actually like (not needed a price tag on every product) but the second and third have been pretty shady laws, one that is pretty much textbook Gerymandering and another that pretty much makes insurance companies able to barely pay for the care of people with traumatic injuries and paralysis I love my state government

http://michiganradio.org/post/how-st...eal-their-laws

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess without reading the article this was done by Republicans.