Few questions about weapons

NiceSub · 02-24-12, 06:05 PM

So far so god I am getting into the sonar stetions and begin to understand them.... Las time while i was playing quick mission in meditterean in Los Angeles class I was surprised on wepons that you can load. I read something in manual about ADCAP and TSAM (becouse i intended to use them that time it was mission in which you have to destroy just ships no subs). So i got contact it was russian and i fired one ADCAP and I have set all depth setting at 10 ft (just to make sure that ADCAP doesnt get under him and doesnt explode) so i fired torp (before i done TMA work) so i got to external cam and made sure that torp is really goinf to 10 ft. I got back at my sub and i strted to guide him ussing wire controls. I made my torp come close and when target got close to cone I have enabled the torp. I go to watch topr i nwater and insted to torp explode he just got under him and no detonatio...so i shutdown torp....go to my tubes with TASM and fire one TASM at same target i set it to seeker range at 5nm and wide search patern or what ever is called...so the rocket starts going and it passes behind target at around 500y from him...so my questions are: Why ADCAP didint detonate? can it go even more shalow then 10ft?? How to use properly TASM??I mean what is seeker range?for example if i put into seeker range 5nm is that range of 5nm from sub when missile starts looking for targets or something else? What is wide serch and narrow in TASM ssettings. If i was going against sub with adcap and if adcap gets enabled will it adjust his depth to follow sub so if sub goes up so does torp or the taget will get away if it just make changes to depth? Sonar on ADCAP passive or active which one better? Is ther eout some good TMA manual couse i have some problems getting all dots aligned. I am heaving some problems with ruller and maing all dots centered.

Pisces · 02-24-12, 06:36 PM

First of all, have you checked the accuracy of your TMA? If you set the map to "show Truth" (Ctrl-Shift-T I believe) then the map shows the actual position of the contact. It's sort of a cheat, but very valuable while learning TMA. If it is not showing the truth positions then the Contact postion is only as good as you have done your TMA, or as best as the Auto-TMA crew did. If your TMA efforts weren't accurate enough then the torpedo and TASM would be targeted to a non-existing target. It simply didn't find it and continues on.

The 3D window has no bearing on reality unless Show Truth is activated. If it's not Showing Truth then it could be a false Identification, false classification of friend/foe and/or incorrect location course and speed. It may not be true!

NiceSub · 02-25-12, 05:21 AM

Oh yes thank you have answerd me why my weapons missed the target. But you didint answer my specific questiosn about ADCAP and TASM. Like what is seeker range? Is that range from sub that after is crossed TASM will activate and start looking for target? What is narrow search and wide serach in TASM setup. If I am atacking sub with ADCAP and target starts changhing depth will do so ADCAP whne he gets lock on sub or target will be safe by changihng his own depth. What is beter sonar mode for ADCAP passive or active? Is there a way to find out another subs depth?? Is there out any good tutorial about TMA? I am heaving problems with the green ruller in TMA i takes me ages to aline him properly with all bearings and smetimes I cant align him with bearings at all as consequence the dots in left upper corner are not aligned also how much dots can i tolerated to be out of alignment?

Dr.Sid · 02-25-12, 08:37 AM

Quote:

- Like what is seeker range?

Seeker range is range at which the weapon will detect the target. Usually you fire the weapon from much larger distance. Torpedoes range is around 1000 yard (IIRC, also it depends on many things) .. so you have to get your torpedo at least that close to the target, so it can start homing on its own.

Quote:

If I am atacking sub with ADCAP and target starts changhing depth will do so ADCAP whne he gets lock on sub or target will be safe by changihng his own depth.

If the torpedo is locked, it will follow the target if it changes depth. Even if the target is changing depth before the torpedo locks on, it usually cannot change depth enough to get out of seeker cone. Also thermal layer has no effect on short distances at which the seeker locks on.

Quote:

Is there a way to find out another subs depth??

Most of the time no. And most of the time, there is also no need. While subs can change depth, all the problem is basically just 2D. Sub can go 1000m down .. the best ones .. but that is nothing compared to horizontal distances. Also the torpedo at medium depth will pick up enemy sub at any depth.

NiceSub · 02-25-12, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Seeker range is range at which the weapon will detect the target. Usually you fire the weapon from much larger distance. Torpedoes range is around 1000 yard (IIRC, also it depends on many things) .. so you have to get your torpedo at least that close to the target, so it can start homing on its own.

If the torpedo is locked, it will follow the target if it changes depth. Even if the target is changing depth before the torpedo locks on, it usually cannot change depth enough to get out of seeker cone. Also thermal layer has no effect on short distances at which the seeker locks on.

Most of the time no. And most of the time, there is also no need. While subs can change depth, all the problem is basically just 2D. Sub can go 1000m down .. the best ones .. but that is nothing compared to horizontal distances. Also the torpedo at medium depth will pick up enemy sub at any depth.

Thank you on your answers! Any good TMA tutorial out there I am really having problems with drawing solution it takes me too long to aling the green ruller in TMA with all bearnig lines

robdw · 02-25-12, 12:06 PM

Go to www.subguru.com and under the downloads tab there are a number of files on TMA. Can't claim how good they are from personal experience, but I would guess they are likely pretty good.

NiceSub · 02-25-12, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robdw

Go to www.subguru.com and under the downloads tab there are a number of files on TMA. Can't claim how good they are from personal experience, but I would guess they are likely pretty good.

Yeah imwas on subguru.com and i found one short clip but coulndt understand it fully...but now i am not at home so i cant rwally what it was and i cant look for other tutorial about TMA. So till i get home i was wondering can some captains share some tips about using TMA mainly my problem with TMA is that i cant put all bearing linea on marks on ruller....especially if i have more bearing lines...also i dont know how but hapens to me the first bearig line gets in midle and other bearing lines conected with same contact are around some are left of it some right of the first line so it is imposible to conect them all with ruller properly

Dr.Sid · 02-25-12, 04:35 PM

You talking about ruler .. you mean frigate TMA ? That is pretty messed up. Luckily you don't need do TMA on frigate most of the time, as you have active sonar and helo.
Sure, even on subs you rarely have chance to stack all the dots perfectly. Usually you only need last dots to stack, as the target may change speed and direction, in which case it is impossible to stack all the dots. Also you have to make change in direction or speed during collection of target bearing, otherwise the solution will not be possible.
You can also use some estimates to help you .. for example you will usually detect targets at some distance. You don't have to know speed and course of the target very well, as it will most probably change in the moment he detect the torpedo. Sonar can provide you with classification and speed information. You can use spherical and towed array to triangulate. Or use UUV to triangulate (interesting method for Kilo, which does not have towed array). Sometimes you can upload probable position of target into link, and let other friendly platforms investigate.

Pisces · 03-01-12, 08:12 AM

Molonlabe made a tma tutorial mission and a walkthrough document to go with it. It explains the basics of how TMA should be done. I'm sure it is also on Subguru.com

TMA in the OH Perry is close to impossible due to the bearing lines being drawn too short. Try to do TMA with a sub first. And against civilian vessels first also. They (usually) do not have the ability to detect you, so they happily proceed on their plotted course ignorant of your intentions.

NiceSub · 03-01-12, 05:57 PM

Thnx Pisces on info....could you pls give me the link of that tutorial?thnx in advance

Dr.Sid · 03-02-12, 10:54 AM

As was said .. subguru.com it's not overly complex site ..

http://subguru.com/dwmissions.htm, the name is asw_training, by Molon Labe. There is also some interesting stuff in Downloads section.

02-24-12, 06:05 PM	#1
NiceSub Torpedoman Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 112 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Few questions about weapons So far so god I am getting into the sonar stetions and begin to understand them.... Las time while i was playing quick mission in meditterean in Los Angeles class I was surprised on wepons that you can load. I read something in manual about ADCAP and TSAM (becouse i intended to use them that time it was mission in which you have to destroy just ships no subs). So i got contact it was russian and i fired one ADCAP and I have set all depth setting at 10 ft (just to make sure that ADCAP doesnt get under him and doesnt explode) so i fired torp (before i done TMA work) so i got to external cam and made sure that torp is really goinf to 10 ft. I got back at my sub and i strted to guide him ussing wire controls. I made my torp come close and when target got close to cone I have enabled the torp. I go to watch topr i nwater and insted to torp explode he just got under him and no detonatio...so i shutdown torp....go to my tubes with TASM and fire one TASM at same target i set it to seeker range at 5nm and wide search patern or what ever is called...so the rocket starts going and it passes behind target at around 500y from him...so my questions are: Why ADCAP didint detonate? can it go even more shalow then 10ft?? How to use properly TASM??I mean what is seeker range?for example if i put into seeker range 5nm is that range of 5nm from sub when missile starts looking for targets or something else? What is wide serch and narrow in TASM ssettings. If i was going against sub with adcap and if adcap gets enabled will it adjust his depth to follow sub so if sub goes up so does torp or the taget will get away if it just make changes to depth? Sonar on ADCAP passive or active which one better? Is ther eout some good TMA manual couse i have some problems getting all dots aligned. I am heaving some problems with ruller and maing all dots centered.

02-24-12, 06:36 PM	#2
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	First of all, have you checked the accuracy of your TMA? If you set the map to "show Truth" (Ctrl-Shift-T I believe) then the map shows the actual position of the contact. It's sort of a cheat, but very valuable while learning TMA. If it is not showing the truth positions then the Contact postion is only as good as you have done your TMA, or as best as the Auto-TMA crew did. If your TMA efforts weren't accurate enough then the torpedo and TASM would be targeted to a non-existing target. It simply didn't find it and continues on. The 3D window has no bearing on reality unless Show Truth is activated. If it's not Showing Truth then it could be a false Identification, false classification of friend/foe and/or incorrect location course and speed. It may not be true! __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

02-25-12, 04:35 PM	#8
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	You talking about ruler .. you mean frigate TMA ? That is pretty messed up. Luckily you don't need do TMA on frigate most of the time, as you have active sonar and helo. Sure, even on subs you rarely have chance to stack all the dots perfectly. Usually you only need last dots to stack, as the target may change speed and direction, in which case it is impossible to stack all the dots. Also you have to make change in direction or speed during collection of target bearing, otherwise the solution will not be possible. You can also use some estimates to help you .. for example you will usually detect targets at some distance. You don't have to know speed and course of the target very well, as it will most probably change in the moment he detect the torpedo. Sonar can provide you with classification and speed information. You can use spherical and towed array to triangulate. Or use UUV to triangulate (interesting method for Kilo, which does not have towed array). Sometimes you can upload probable position of target into link, and let other friendly platforms investigate. __________________ ComSubSim forum at CADC

03-01-12, 08:12 AM	#9
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Molonlabe made a tma tutorial mission and a walkthrough document to go with it. It explains the basics of how TMA should be done. I'm sure it is also on Subguru.com TMA in the OH Perry is close to impossible due to the bearing lines being drawn too short. Try to do TMA with a sub first. And against civilian vessels first also. They (usually) do not have the ability to detect you, so they happily proceed on their plotted course ignorant of your intentions. __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

03-02-12, 10:54 AM	#11
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	As was said .. subguru.com it's not overly complex site .. http://subguru.com/dwmissions.htm, the name is asw_training, by Molon Labe. There is also some interesting stuff in Downloads section. __________________ ComSubSim forum at CADC Last edited by Dr.Sid; 03-02-12 at 11:32 AM.

02-25-12, 05:21 AM	#3
NiceSub Torpedoman Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 112 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Oh yes thank you have answerd me why my weapons missed the target. But you didint answer my specific questiosn about ADCAP and TASM. Like what is seeker range? Is that range from sub that after is crossed TASM will activate and start looking for target? What is narrow search and wide serach in TASM setup. If I am atacking sub with ADCAP and target starts changhing depth will do so ADCAP whne he gets lock on sub or target will be safe by changihng his own depth. What is beter sonar mode for ADCAP passive or active? Is there a way to find out another subs depth?? Is there out any good tutorial about TMA? I am heaving problems with the green ruller in TMA i takes me ages to aline him properly with all bearings and smetimes I cant align him with bearings at all as consequence the dots in left upper corner are not aligned also how much dots can i tolerated to be out of alignment?

02-25-12, 12:06 PM	#6
robdw Swabbie Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Go to www.subguru.com and under the downloads tab there are a number of files on TMA. Can't claim how good they are from personal experience, but I would guess they are likely pretty good.

03-01-12, 05:57 PM	#10
NiceSub Torpedoman Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 112 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Thnx Pisces on info....could you pls give me the link of that tutorial?thnx in advance