Need some aircraft ID help

Subnuts · 02-04-12, 07:42 PM

Was walking back home from work today, and saw an unusual aircraft flying overhead that I couldn't recognize. I wasn't thinking, and forgot to take my camera out of my coat pocket. It had a straight wing with straight wingtips and no dihedral, twin propeller-driven engines, a double tailfin, a fairly tubby fuselage, and was painted overall green. I immediately assumed that it was a B-25 headed to Bradley International Airport, but it turns out the B-25 had rounded wingtips and larger engines.

Now, I'm not really up on my civilian aircraft, so it might have been an everyday cargo plane I've never seen before. However, I'm have a hard time pinning down what type it could have been. It looked so much like a B-25, and there are apparently dozens of still-flying examples, but the shape of the wings were slightly different from those of a B-25. Anybody have any idea exactly what I saw? I can't identify it, so it must have been a UFO.

U570 · 02-04-12, 08:18 PM

It could be an early variant of the B-25, they had smaller engines and different wingtips

Sailor Steve · 02-04-12, 10:08 PM

How big was it? High wings or low wings? Radial or in-line engines?

Something like this?

Or this?

tater · 02-04-12, 10:34 PM

Yeah, a PV-2 is a possibility, but overall OD (or green) is kinda odd.

CaptainHaplo · 02-05-12, 01:02 AM

The first prototype of the B25 was the NA40 - which had rounded wingtips:

The next was the NA-40B, or NA-42 (different sources disagree on it). No pictures I could find. It was lost in a crash. A further refinement was the NA-62, which was the final basis for the production model.

If the only distinctive difference between a "classic" B25 and your bird were the wingtips and engines, I would suspect that it was a B25 with "aftermarket" engines rated similiarly and with a slightly modified wing. Wouldn't be the first warbird who someone did a little "tinkering" on.

Personally, I always preferred the B-26 Marauder....

MH · 02-05-12, 02:46 AM

GoldenRivet · 02-05-12, 10:53 AM

@ Subnuts... MH has probably found your culprit.

tater · 02-05-12, 01:38 PM

Some PV-2s had the clipped wings as well. they are both Lockheeds, and very similar.

tater · 02-05-12, 01:44 PM

Could also be an AT-11, actually.

(which is a slightly different version of the first plane posted above in post 3 by SS.)

Stealhead · 02-05-12, 06:04 PM

I second Sailor Steve the "tubby" fuselage and straight wings tips and twin tail makes me think first of a C-119.Hard to say though the description is limited and there are a number of planes that could fit.The fairly tubby bit makes me think C-119 and they where painted in the South East Asia pattern during Nam someone could have easily decided to paint one OD green though according to a website I found the only flying examples in the US are in Alaska.Another possible match is the C-123 it has only a single tail but fits the general description it could also have been a C-8 Buffalo another single tail but generally fitting the description.

USS Drum · 02-05-12, 06:47 PM

He may have seen a WWII aircraft that was part of the RAF.

Sailor Steve · 02-05-12, 08:00 PM

Which one? Do you have an example to show him?

USS Drum · 02-05-12, 11:45 PM

Well no but a lot of WWII British aircraft had the two tail fins.

Sailor Steve · 02-06-12, 12:26 AM

That doesn't help. He's trying to identify the one he saw. Showing pictures may not get the right one, but suggesting that it might be British is actually counterproductive. A lot of French airplanes had twin tails too.

Stealhead · 02-06-12, 12:29 AM

Not all that many and most of them where RAF versions of various Lockheed designs which have already been posted. You have the Lancaster and Handley-Page Hailfax both of which have four engines.As Sailor Steve said that is a bit counter productive may as well mention the A-10 and P-38.

It was most likely a version of a Lockheed Ventura most where flown by the Navy
though it was also used by the USAAF as a trainer as well which would explain the OD camouflage all Allied users as well as the Navy used something other than pure OD green.Thinking about it this is most likely the plane there are quite a few still flying in the US.In USAAF guise it was known as the B-37 some Ventura IIs where also used by the USAAF. They would have flown in an OD green paint scheme also seeing as they all flew stateside most of them survived the war and where useful for private use ensuring their survival.Also the OP admits that he is not up on civil aircraft which if you are not familiar with would be likely confused for something else on a quick viewing.It might also have been a Beechcraft Model 18 the civil version of the previously mentioned AT-11.

If the plane is local the OP has a good chance of seeing it again. There are two grass airfields near my house and I know some rather rare planes thanks to folks keeping theirs at one of them.One after a few quick views I thought was a PBY Catalina I live in FL so flying boats and float planes are common turns out it was an Albatross an old USAF Air Rescue one as it is an amphibian I saw it in front of its hanger one day(the owner has it painted in a Navy scheme though).The other is a Yak-18 the pilot is quite skilled he will do loops and rolls most times when he flys it.Well maybe the Yak is not rare but you see many times more Cessnas or Piper Cubs round here than Yaks.

02-04-12, 07:42 PM	#1
Subnuts The Old Man Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,658 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Need some aircraft ID help Was walking back home from work today, and saw an unusual aircraft flying overhead that I couldn't recognize. I wasn't thinking, and forgot to take my camera out of my coat pocket. It had a straight wing with straight wingtips and no dihedral, twin propeller-driven engines, a double tailfin, a fairly tubby fuselage, and was painted overall green. I immediately assumed that it was a B-25 headed to Bradley International Airport, but it turns out the B-25 had rounded wingtips and larger engines. Now, I'm not really up on my civilian aircraft, so it might have been an everyday cargo plane I've never seen before. However, I'm have a hard time pinning down what type it could have been. It looked so much like a B-25, and there are apparently dozens of still-flying examples, but the shape of the wings were slightly different from those of a B-25. Anybody have any idea exactly what I saw? I can't identify it, so it must have been a UFO. __________________ My Amazon.com reviews

02-04-12, 08:18 PM	#2
U570 Grey Wolf Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 867 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	It could be an early variant of the B-25, they had smaller engines and different wingtips __________________ "Submariners are a bunch of intelligent misfits that somehow seem to get along, understand each other and work well together"- Anon

02-04-12, 10:08 PM	#3
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	How big was it? High wings or low wings? Radial or in-line engines? Something like this? Or this? __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

02-04-12, 10:34 PM	#4
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yeah, a PV-2 is a possibility, but overall OD (or green) is kinda odd. __________________ "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." — Thomas Paine

02-05-12, 01:02 AM	#5
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	The first prototype of the B25 was the NA40 - which had rounded wingtips: The next was the NA-40B, or NA-42 (different sources disagree on it). No pictures I could find. It was lost in a crash. A further refinement was the NA-62, which was the final basis for the production model. If the only distinctive difference between a "classic" B25 and your bird were the wingtips and engines, I would suspect that it was a B25 with "aftermarket" engines rated similiarly and with a slightly modified wing. Wouldn't be the first warbird who someone did a little "tinkering" on. Personally, I always preferred the B-26 Marauder.... __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

02-05-12, 02:46 AM	#6
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0

02-05-12, 10:53 AM	#7
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	@ Subnuts... MH has probably found your culprit. __________________

02-05-12, 01:38 PM	#8
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Some PV-2s had the clipped wings as well. they are both Lockheeds, and very similar. __________________ "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." — Thomas Paine

02-05-12, 01:44 PM	#9
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Could also be an AT-11, actually. (which is a slightly different version of the first plane posted above in post 3 by SS.) __________________ "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." — Thomas Paine

02-05-12, 06:04 PM	#10
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I second Sailor Steve the "tubby" fuselage and straight wings tips and twin tail makes me think first of a C-119.Hard to say though the description is limited and there are a number of planes that could fit.The fairly tubby bit makes me think C-119 and they where painted in the South East Asia pattern during Nam someone could have easily decided to paint one OD green though according to a website I found the only flying examples in the US are in Alaska.Another possible match is the C-123 it has only a single tail but fits the general description it could also have been a C-8 Buffalo another single tail but generally fitting the description. Last edited by Stealhead; 02-05-12 at 06:15 PM.

02-05-12, 06:47 PM	#11
USS Drum Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Washington State Posts: 977 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	He may have seen a WWII aircraft that was part of the RAF.

02-05-12, 08:00 PM	#12
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Which one? Do you have an example to show him? __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

02-05-12, 11:45 PM	#13
USS Drum Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Washington State Posts: 977 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	Well no but a lot of WWII British aircraft had the two tail fins.

02-06-12, 12:26 AM	#14
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	That doesn't help. He's trying to identify the one he saw. Showing pictures may not get the right one, but suggesting that it might be British is actually counterproductive. A lot of French airplanes had twin tails too. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

02-06-12, 12:29 AM	#15
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Not all that many and most of them where RAF versions of various Lockheed designs which have already been posted. You have the Lancaster and Handley-Page Hailfax both of which have four engines.As Sailor Steve said that is a bit counter productive may as well mention the A-10 and P-38. It was most likely a version of a Lockheed Ventura most where flown by the Navy though it was also used by the USAAF as a trainer as well which would explain the OD camouflage all Allied users as well as the Navy used something other than pure OD green.Thinking about it this is most likely the plane there are quite a few still flying in the US.In USAAF guise it was known as the B-37 some Ventura IIs where also used by the USAAF. They would have flown in an OD green paint scheme also seeing as they all flew stateside most of them survived the war and where useful for private use ensuring their survival.Also the OP admits that he is not up on civil aircraft which if you are not familiar with would be likely confused for something else on a quick viewing.It might also have been a Beechcraft Model 18 the civil version of the previously mentioned AT-11. If the plane is local the OP has a good chance of seeing it again. There are two grass airfields near my house and I know some rather rare planes thanks to folks keeping theirs at one of them.One after a few quick views I thought was a PBY Catalina I live in FL so flying boats and float planes are common turns out it was an Albatross an old USAF Air Rescue one as it is an amphibian I saw it in front of its hanger one day(the owner has it painted in a Navy scheme though).The other is a Yak-18 the pilot is quite skilled he will do loops and rolls most times when he flys it.Well maybe the Yak is not rare but you see many times more Cessnas or Piper Cubs round here than Yaks. Last edited by Stealhead; 02-06-12 at 12:53 AM.