Torpedo Failures

rudewarrior · 01-26-12, 05:48 PM

Hi,

I am currently using two methods to simulate torpedo failures. I am currently using h.Sie's Torpedo Failure Fix V1.1 BETA for V16A3 and LGN1's realistic torpedo failures mod together. Both of these mods are excellent and work very well, and in general I don't mind the difficulty in dealing with the failures, as they both try to make reasonable attempts to simulate the torpedo issues the Germans experienced during the first half of the war.

Unfortunately, there has been a couple of times, due to heavy weather and random conditions created by these mods, that I have managed to expend most if not all of my entire load out on one ship, with no hits.

Given the limitations of SH3 and the particular circumstances, i.e. weather preventing deck gun use and the overall setup of how the mods are actually implemented, I don't think there is any way to fix these mods to make them "more realistic," and if it is a choice of either having the mods or not, I would rather keep them. Since I play DiD, I think what I would like to do is start a discussion about how to make the outcome "realistic."

I do know, historically speaking, there are incidents where boats exhausted the last of their ordinance with no hits/all failures and the target even knew about it. The torpedo crisis did produce some very bad results and situations, but I hesitate to think there was ever an incident where a single U-boat would actually get to the point that they fired 12 of 14 torpedoes at single target, all without hits. In this particular case, 10 of those were TI's, so I could see the track indicating the torp was passing beneath the ship.

Just for explanation, I suspect that the realistic torpedo failures setting was causing such a low depth setting that all of the torpedoes were passing beneath the target (unless they were all duds passing at max depth from the Torpedo Failures Fix, which I doubt).

It would seem that the commander would try to change something after a certain point, but to do that realistically becomes somewhat difficult. The orders at the time insisted that a minimum depth on the torpedoes be used to prevent surface runners, but this minimum depth may result in torpedoes still traveling under the target, due to how SH3 Commander randomizes the torpedo depth. So now, if I jump to a potentially unreasonable conclusion (given the limited knowledge of u-boat commanders in relation to the torpedo issues at the time) and set a shallower depth, I am now not only behaving "unrealistically," but also there is nothing in the game to simulate a failure from a "surface runner." The problem is that SH3 Commander randomizes such that all torpedoes experience the depth keeping issue during that one session of game play. In order to reset it to another value I would have to save and reload the game. Not only does this violate my "DiD sense," but also I have no evidence to support actually when I should be doing this even if I do know that the depth keeping is the source of the actual error (as opposed to the dud modification that comes from the Torpedo Failures Fix, just to throw yet another issue into the mix). This could also present the additional complication of needing to save and reload such that I am out of visual range of my target in order to avoid erratic save game behavior.

I say that, on the whole, this is a situation that happens rarely, and I do enjoy having both mods working on my set up, but I am wondering what I should do after I have emptied five tubes at a ship, watched all the bubble trails, and scored no hits. I do know that Commanders have the ultimate discretion with their boats, but the only solutions I have seem to be potentially as unrealistic as the original situation.

Another option would be to just ignore it. There were patrols that had zero tonnage, and the Germans were aware of the problems, so they were trying to come up with a solution. It doesn't necessarily seem to be an unreasonable outcome to just chalk it up to torpedo failure/bad luck, and just take it as a loss. After all, I think "disappointment" is probably a pretty realistic reaction considering what u-boat commanders had to deal with during the war.

Incidentally, does anyone know of a mission where a u-boat returned with zero tonnage sunk and most if not all their ordinance expended? I would suspect not considering the fleeting nature of successful contact in the vastness of the ocean.

Maybe we could introduce a mod such that once we experience a certain level of failure, we could submit a report to the Torpedo Directorate, and from there, after a random period of time, the issue would suddenly be "fixed?"

01-26-12, 05:48 PM	#1
rudewarrior Sonar Guy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Middlebury, VT, USA Posts: 378 Downloads: 165 Uploads: 2	Torpedo Failures Hi, I am currently using two methods to simulate torpedo failures. I am currently using h.Sie's Torpedo Failure Fix V1.1 BETA for V16A3 and LGN1's realistic torpedo failures mod together. Both of these mods are excellent and work very well, and in general I don't mind the difficulty in dealing with the failures, as they both try to make reasonable attempts to simulate the torpedo issues the Germans experienced during the first half of the war. Unfortunately, there has been a couple of times, due to heavy weather and random conditions created by these mods, that I have managed to expend most if not all of my entire load out on one ship, with no hits. Given the limitations of SH3 and the particular circumstances, i.e. weather preventing deck gun use and the overall setup of how the mods are actually implemented, I don't think there is any way to fix these mods to make them "more realistic," and if it is a choice of either having the mods or not, I would rather keep them. Since I play DiD, I think what I would like to do is start a discussion about how to make the outcome "realistic." I do know, historically speaking, there are incidents where boats exhausted the last of their ordinance with no hits/all failures and the target even knew about it. The torpedo crisis did produce some very bad results and situations, but I hesitate to think there was ever an incident where a single U-boat would actually get to the point that they fired 12 of 14 torpedoes at single target, all without hits. In this particular case, 10 of those were TI's, so I could see the track indicating the torp was passing beneath the ship. Just for explanation, I suspect that the realistic torpedo failures setting was causing such a low depth setting that all of the torpedoes were passing beneath the target (unless they were all duds passing at max depth from the Torpedo Failures Fix, which I doubt). It would seem that the commander would try to change something after a certain point, but to do that realistically becomes somewhat difficult. The orders at the time insisted that a minimum depth on the torpedoes be used to prevent surface runners, but this minimum depth may result in torpedoes still traveling under the target, due to how SH3 Commander randomizes the torpedo depth. So now, if I jump to a potentially unreasonable conclusion (given the limited knowledge of u-boat commanders in relation to the torpedo issues at the time) and set a shallower depth, I am now not only behaving "unrealistically," but also there is nothing in the game to simulate a failure from a "surface runner." The problem is that SH3 Commander randomizes such that all torpedoes experience the depth keeping issue during that one session of game play. In order to reset it to another value I would have to save and reload the game. Not only does this violate my "DiD sense," but also I have no evidence to support actually when I should be doing this even if I do know that the depth keeping is the source of the actual error (as opposed to the dud modification that comes from the Torpedo Failures Fix, just to throw yet another issue into the mix). This could also present the additional complication of needing to save and reload such that I am out of visual range of my target in order to avoid erratic save game behavior. I say that, on the whole, this is a situation that happens rarely, and I do enjoy having both mods working on my set up, but I am wondering what I should do after I have emptied five tubes at a ship, watched all the bubble trails, and scored no hits. I do know that Commanders have the ultimate discretion with their boats, but the only solutions I have seem to be potentially as unrealistic as the original situation. Another option would be to just ignore it. There were patrols that had zero tonnage, and the Germans were aware of the problems, so they were trying to come up with a solution. It doesn't necessarily seem to be an unreasonable outcome to just chalk it up to torpedo failure/bad luck, and just take it as a loss. After all, I think "disappointment" is probably a pretty realistic reaction considering what u-boat commanders had to deal with during the war. Incidentally, does anyone know of a mission where a u-boat returned with zero tonnage sunk and most if not all their ordinance expended? I would suspect not considering the fleeting nature of successful contact in the vastness of the ocean. Maybe we could introduce a mod such that once we experience a certain level of failure, we could submit a report to the Torpedo Directorate, and from there, after a random period of time, the issue would suddenly be "fixed?"