Zig zags every 5 minutes?

pythos · 12-23-11, 02:01 AM

Okay, this is aggravating, and I think a real realism killer. My understanding of convoys is they zig zaged at most every half hour. I am encountering convoys that are doing so every 5 minutes. This is making getting a bead on them impossible.

I am running Magnum Opus only. Is there any way I can stop this lunacy? I would think a real convoy doing this would run into one another. This would have been a fantastic tactic against the real U-boats that is for sure.

By the time I get into a good firing position, and get my eels going, the convoy steers away.

How is the change course interval set?

TheDarkWraith · 12-23-11, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

Okay, this is aggravating, and I think a real realism killer. My understanding of convoys is they zig zaged at most every half hour. I am encountering convoys that are doing so every 5 minutes. This is making getting a bead on them impossible.

I am running Magnum Opus only. Is there any way I can stop this lunacy? I would think a real convoy doing this would run into one another. This would have been a fantastic tactic against the real U-boats that is for sure.

By the time I get into a good firing position, and get my eels going, the convoy steers away.

How is the change course interval set?

This is IRAI's doing

Look in \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix for parameters to change to your liking. There are a lot of them in there.

mobucks · 12-23-11, 04:57 AM

not sure about convoys but, from my understanding at least, japanese merchants in the pacific would zig every 3 to 9 minutes.

I have IRAI and havent seen zig-plan convoys or single merchants. Perhaps you spooked them?

Sailor Steve · 12-23-11, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobucks

not sure about convoys but, from my understanding at least, japanese merchants in the pacific would zig every 3 to 9 minutes.

Here are some of them.

It's too bad we don't have something similar for British convoys.

Husksubsky · 12-23-11, 10:18 AM

The Brits were drunk and didn t bother zig zag

Trevally. · 12-23-11, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Husksubsky

The Brits were drunk and didn t bother zig zag

pythos · 12-23-11, 11:50 AM

Thank you TDW. I changed the course change interval from 45 to 1800. I hope that results in a much more realistic 30 minutes.

That Japanese convoy zig zag is crazy. Or was it for a single or one or two merchants? Thing is this would have resulted in the US getting zero hits on Japanese merchants There is just no way a sub could overhaul the target, while staying out of visual range, submerge, get the solution and fire, AND have the torpedoes reach their target in the time between course changes.

Oh yea it is my understanding as well that British convoys DID not zig zag in the early part of the war. Is there a parameter to adjust for when the tactic starts getting used in the sim?

Vanilla · 12-23-11, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

That Japanese convoy zig zag is crazy. Or was it for a single or one or two merchants? Thing is this would have resulted in the US getting zero hits on Japanese merchants There is just no way a sub could overhaul the target, while staying out of visual range, submerge, get the solution and fire, AND have the torpedoes reach their target in the time between course changes.

About 10 minutes is a good figure:

Vanilla · 12-23-11, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

That Japanese convoy zig zag is crazy. Or was it for a single or one or two merchants? Thing is this would have resulted in the US getting zero hits on Japanese merchants There is just no way a sub could overhaul the target, while staying out of visual range, submerge, get the solution and fire, AND have the torpedoes reach their target in the time between course changes.

The thing is the real U-boots did not shot their torpedos as we often try to do: they did not get an exact math solution but rather a rough estimation, then they shot everything they had in the forward tubes in a fan shot hoping that at least some torpedoes will hit. They could not do an exact solution even with a non zigging target - torpedoes are not perfect and cannot maintain exactly 40 knots, more to that - consider waves, changes in temperature, currents and what not. Exact math where not possible. That is why they get as close as possible, ideally inside the convoy and did what british submarines called browning shot, even with a zigging target there is hope that zag will not come before torps get to the target.

Hartmann · 12-23-11, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

Thank you TDW. I changed the course change interval from 45 to 1800. I hope that results in a much more realistic 30 minutes.

That Japanese convoy zig zag is crazy. Or was it for a single or one or two merchants? Thing is this would have resulted in the US getting zero hits on Japanese merchants There is just no way a sub could overhaul the target, while staying out of visual range, submerge, get the solution and fire, AND have the torpedoes reach their target in the time between course changes.

Oh yea it is my understanding as well that British convoys DID not zig zag in the early part of the war. Is there a parameter to adjust for when the tactic starts getting used in the sim?

30 minutes is a good interval, and make easy get a correct fire solution, but sometimes it not is very useful against a skilled commander.

"November 24, 1999
Attn: The Honorable John W. Warner
Chairman, Senate Armed Services Committee
Russell Office Building, Washington, D.C. 20510

"I hear that your legislature is considering resolutions which would clear the name of the late Charles Butler McVay III, captain of the USS Indianapolis which was sunk on July 30, 1945, by torpedoes fired from the submarine which was under my command.

"I do not understand why Captain McVay was court-martialed. I do not understand why he was convicted on the charge of hazarding his ship by failing to zigzag because I would have been able to launch a successful torpedo attack against his ship whether it had been zigzagging or not.

"I have met may of your brave men who survived the sinking of the Indianapolis. I would like to join them in urging that your national legislature clear their captain's name.

"Our peoples have forgiven each other for that terrible war and its consequences. Perhaps it is time your peoples forgave Captain McVay for the humiliation of his unjust conviction.

Mochitsura Hashimoto
former captain of I-58
Japanese Navy at WWII
Umenomiya Taisha
30 Fukeno Kawa Machi, Umezu
Ukyo-ku, Kyoto 615-0921, Japan"

ETsd4 · 12-23-11, 05:51 PM

All the documentation shows a minimal zigzagging-interval of 5 minutes.

The slowest torpedo can run in 5 minutes 4.63 km.
And there is a reason why
- u-boats have spreadangle-dials with the ability of a spread-coverage

- u-boats have FAT-torpedos with the ability to scan wide areas

pythos · 12-25-11, 06:10 PM

I have encountered another peculiar behavior I am sure was not a tactic. The convoys enter a spiral pattern and just go round and round my boat, and for all intents and purposes form a shooting gallery. I have lined out all of the lines in the scripts mentioned to negate this but no luck.

Is this just something messed up in my install or something cause this is looney, and VERY immersion killing.

12-23-11, 02:01 AM	#1
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Zig zags every 5 minutes? Okay, this is aggravating, and I think a real realism killer. My understanding of convoys is they zig zaged at most every half hour. I am encountering convoys that are doing so every 5 minutes. This is making getting a bead on them impossible. I am running Magnum Opus only. Is there any way I can stop this lunacy? I would think a real convoy doing this would run into one another. This would have been a fantastic tactic against the real U-boats that is for sure. By the time I get into a good firing position, and get my eels going, the convoy steers away. How is the change course interval set?

12-23-11, 05:51 PM	#11
ETsd4 中国水兵 Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 278 Downloads: 91 Uploads: 0	All the documentation shows a minimal zigzagging-interval of 5 minutes. The slowest torpedo can run in 5 minutes 4.63 km. And there is a reason why - u-boats have spreadangle-dials with the ability of a spread-coverage - u-boats have FAT-torpedos with the ability to scan wide areas Last edited by ETsd4; 12-23-11 at 06:01 PM.

12-23-11, 04:57 AM	#3
mobucks Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 713 Downloads: 209 Uploads: 0	not sure about convoys but, from my understanding at least, japanese merchants in the pacific would zig every 3 to 9 minutes. I have IRAI and havent seen zig-plan convoys or single merchants. Perhaps you spooked them?

12-23-11, 10:18 AM	#5
Husksubsky XO Join Date: May 2008 Location: oslo,Norway Posts: 424 Downloads: 254 Uploads: 0	The Brits were drunk and didn t bother zig zag

12-23-11, 11:50 AM	#7
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Thank you TDW. I changed the course change interval from 45 to 1800. I hope that results in a much more realistic 30 minutes. That Japanese convoy zig zag is crazy. Or was it for a single or one or two merchants? Thing is this would have resulted in the US getting zero hits on Japanese merchants There is just no way a sub could overhaul the target, while staying out of visual range, submerge, get the solution and fire, AND have the torpedoes reach their target in the time between course changes. Oh yea it is my understanding as well that British convoys DID not zig zag in the early part of the war. Is there a parameter to adjust for when the tactic starts getting used in the sim?

12-25-11, 06:10 PM	#12
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	I have encountered another peculiar behavior I am sure was not a tactic. The convoys enter a spiral pattern and just go round and round my boat, and for all intents and purposes form a shooting gallery. I have lined out all of the lines in the scripts mentioned to negate this but no luck. Is this just something messed up in my install or something cause this is looney, and VERY immersion killing.