[WIP] Flt Boat Damage Model Redux

[Observer]

This mod started to solve two areas that have bothered for a long time:

*The engine room propulsion model, in particular the damage model for the diesel engines, and
*Crew vulnerability to surface ship gunfire (in particular) while at topside watch stations (e.g. deck gun, AA gun and deck watch).

The current WIP scope addresses the following areas (Note: It's growns a bit All changes and testing has been limited to the Gato for this WIP, and are based on TMO + RSRD):

1. Exposed crew are now very vulnerable to both small arms and large caliber naval gunfire. This includes air dropped bombs and depth charges for exposed crew members. The normal method to adjust crew damage has been to adjust the CrewExposure factor for each compartment. For the DG, AA, and Deck Watch this adjustment has the disadvantage of also making the crew in these compartments extremely vulnerable to damage during depth charge attacks. I think I've found a way to mitigate this problem (see the screen shots below).

2. What started as a way to correct the damage model for the diesel engines has turned into a rezone of most of the Gato's compartments and equipment systems. In many cases new zones have or will be added (particularly in the conning tower) that links equipment to a damage zone. The Gato diesels and electric engines have been rezoned and relocated consistent with actual ships drawings. The same will be applied to other equipment to the maximum extent practical. There is still much work to do to add damage zones for the missing equipment, and to adjust the existing equipment zones.

3. While I was not able to ultimately fix the diesel and electric engine propulsion (e.g. four diesel engines and four electric engines all tied to individual zones) due to some quirks with specially coded zones in SH4, I was able to work on the repair time and equipment models so that it provides a reasonable "abstraction" for the actual engine room. This combined with the rezoning effort above should be an improvement. The diesel engines will be hard to "destroy" but they can be damaged, and this damage will affect speed.

On other item addressed in this effort was the "destroyed" "bulkhead" that can somehow be repaired by the crew. This is no longer the case. Destroyed "bulkheads" will now stay destroyed.

For those wondering, as far as I know, it's not possible to operate only the electric motors when surfaced. This seems to be a limitation of the SH4 engine. Also, sadly enough, when the electric motors are destroyed, the boat still has propulsion. This is yet another limitation. Ironically, each port/stbd diesel is tied to the applicable port/stbd propeller. If for example the port diesel is destroyed the port propeller will not turn.

4. Consistent with the items above, I have adjusted the crew configuration by adding an additional compartment and by adding additional crew spaces to the conning tower. This is all based on Ducimus' ideas recently posted in the mod forum. I've just extended the idea and added some of my own.

To do list (This is my punchlist of things to complete and/or evaluate)
1. Complete zoning/rezoning of equipment in particular masts, antennas and other external equipment. [AA and DG Complete]
2. Evaluate methods to limit injury to only crew members actually on watch rather than all crew members in a compartment.
3. Evaluate use of creep engine zones in addition to the current electric engine zones (low priority)
4. Evaluate equipment repair times in two cases: (1) with the damage control team. (2) without the damage control team. The DC team increases repair speed by about 6x. This may require an adjustment to RepairsCoef for the DC compartment.
5. Balance/Re-Balance submarine zone HP and depth charge HP to try and make damage from naval gunfire more significant. Ideally, a boat holed by an AP round should not be able to submerge without flooding. I know there are some code limitations here, but some balancing can minimize the potential for the player to submerge after being holed by gunfire without significant adverse consequences.
6. Balance the model so that the boat would most often be lost by flooding rather than just HP reduction (e.g. 100% hull damage).
7. Evaluate crew injury recovery times.
8. Add additional crew members to the control room and conning tower (3D).
9. Correct other mistaken/inaccurate/confusing equipment labels and add/remove equipment to compartments as needed.
10. Evaluate crew model to ensure maximum compatibility based on screen size.

Here are a few screen shots of the work to date:

Modded crew management screen


Modded equipment management screen


Damage after test attack. Note diesel damage and speed reduction.


Crew damage after the above attack. Most damage is just a few scratches. Only the exposed crew are heavily injured.


Equipment damage after a few repairs. Note the ER pressure hull cannot be repaired.


Deck watch crew injury after a single 25mm burst


Deck watch crew injury after two 25mm bursts. Note the dead crew member.


Submerged to escape the attacking escort. Note crew moved to new compartments to mitigate further injury to the deck watch crew.


Damaged equipment after two 25mm bursts. Note this still needs more zone work.



Damage following a DC attack. Note the after TR pressure hull is destroyed and cannot be repaired to stop the flooding. Also note the damage to No. 1 & 3 electric engines has reduced speed at ahead flank. The damage to the electric engine is ~70% meaning that one EE is destroyed (cannot be repaired) and the other is damaged ~10% (can be repaired). This EE will remain damaged at ~60% and cannot be further repaired until the boat returns to port.


Because of the damage to the after torpedo room and the flooding, I'm going to have to speed up to maintain depth control since I cannot repair the pressure hull. If I cannot avoid the escort and battery charge runs low, I may eventually have to surface.

[LukeFF]

VERY interesting stuff. For the diesels and motors did you remove these two sections?

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 4]
ID= EqSlotDEPA
NameDisplayable= No 3 Main Engine
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoDEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, GatoDieselEngine
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= -1

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 5]
ID= EqSlotDESA
NameDisplayable= No 4 Main Engine
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoDEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, GatoDieselEngine
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= -1

and

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 8]
ID= EqSlotEEPA
NameDisplayable= No 3 Electric Engine
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoEEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, GatoElectricEngine
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= -1

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 9]
ID= EqSlotEESA
NameDisplayable= No 4 Electric Engine
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoEEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, GatoElectricEngine
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= -1

If so, I can see what you then did in Equipment.upc to make the units the game sees show up as "Engine 1 & 3" and so forth.

[iricund]

My only slight qualm with the damage/death by 20mm etc armaments is that enemy gun positions will keep firing despite being pummeled themselves. It's nigh on impossible for us to suppress their deck guns/AA positions and I can therefore envisage vast numbers of dead crew members on my submarine during surface attacks.

If it were possible to model our AA gun crews to suppress enemy gunners I'd have less of a problem. Good stuff in theory, but unbalanced in practice.

[akdavis]

Modding the enemy deck armament to be more vulnerable should be possible, although that would broaden the scope significantly. However, I think ignoring surface fire is worse than not being able to fight it out in a gun duel, as the latter was seldom considered advisable in reality.

I hope that you and LukeFF can integrate your work sometime in the future. Some of the best stuff going in my opinion.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by akdavis

I hope that you and LukeFF can integrate your work sometime in the future. Some of the best stuff going in my opinion.

I hope so. Observer's work of combining the two engines/motors in each compartment is a stroke of brilliance and should put to rest the complaints about the engine damage people have had up to this point.

Needless to say, I'm very curious to see his modded UPC files.

[tater]

This is brilliant.

BTW, I noticed that the dead guy is actually not on the deck, he's below. What I did in my tests/experiments was that when I set "battle surface," I simply manually moved all my "below" deck watch crew to damage control.

I love the idea of diesels that can be damaged but not destroyed (or VERY difficult to destroy). Operationally I think that the boat should never be unable to make way due to diesel engine damage.

Awesome work!

tater

[Observer]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

I hope so. Observer's work of combining the two engines/motors in each compartment is a stroke of brilliance and should put to rest the complaints about the engine damage people have had up to this point.

Needless to say, I'm very curious to see his modded UPC files.

In reality, they were always combined, just not in the same way that I did it. In the original, the #1 ME was linked to zone 22 (this is a special zone) while the #3 ME was linked to zone -1. Remember that -1 (from above) means that the zone inherits the damage of the compartment (in this case zone 201). The problem is that there is only two "special" zones for the diesel engines: zone 21 and 55 (DieselEngine1 and DieselEngine2 respectively). When the #1 DE (linked to zone 21) is destroyed the Stbd DEs are lost.

These "special" zones are important, and are specially hard coded so that they do not require the definition of "Category=Engines Room" in the zone definition.

I originally had the idea to add new zone definitions for ME #3 and #4 (link equipment to damage zone), however this didn't work because they wouldn't move the ship unless they contained the "Category=Engines Room" designation in the zone definition. This in turn presented problems because the "special" electric engine zones contain the "Category=Engines Room" designation and won't work properly without it. Suffice it to say I tried every permutation and combination I could think of to make this work and it would not, at least in a believable fashion.

I also tried adding an extra 21 and 55 zone to the Gato with links to the applicable equipment entry. This became a "one to many" data problem and would not represent the individual engine damage properly. This in turn resulted in repair problems for the engines. I even tried some more creative "zone in zone" behavior I've used in other areas, but this proved to be more trouble than it was worth.

In the end, I settled on one big zone linked to one combined equipment file. It's a compromise I'm still not crazy about. I rationalize it by saying it's an abstraction, though the one part I do like is the reduction of speed when damaged. The damage resistance is based on high HP, and still requires balancing. Armor can't be used without some modification to the zone since the DE zone is inside of the ER compartment, and the armor check is only conducted once.

I even toyed with the idea of repairable destroyed equipment similar to the "bulkhead" equipment, but this seems to be unique to the bulkhead equipment item, and given the on screen space limitations, I don't know that adding four new compartments is really practical.

Whew. I hope that helps explain.

[Observer]

Originally Posted by akdavis

Modding the enemy deck armament to be more vulnerable should be possible, although that would broaden the scope significantly.

I'd have to check on the zone issue, but I think this could be a second or third project to rezone the surface ship guns.

However, I think ignoring surface fire is worse than not being able to fight it out in a gun duel, as the latter was seldom considered advisable in reality.

I hope that you and LukeFF can integrate your work sometime in the future. Some of the best stuff going in my opinion.

Thanks.

[Observer]

Originally Posted by iricund

My only slight qualm with the damage/death by 20mm etc armaments is that enemy gun positions will keep firing despite being pummeled themselves. It's nigh on impossible for us to suppress their deck guns/AA positions and I can therefore envisage vast numbers of dead crew members on my submarine during surface attacks.

If it were possible to model our AA gun crews to suppress enemy gunners I'd have less of a problem. Good stuff in theory, but unbalanced in practice.

First submarines should not be in gun duels with surface ships. That to the side though I believe this problem is a function of the fact that not all surface ship guns have damage zones.

I believe the same problem exists for the guns on the fleet boat. I intend to check tonight. In either case the equipment is not tied to the zone, so an automatic disconnect exists. Note that in the applicable submarine UPC file if the ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D is set to -1 then the equipment is damaged based on damage to the compartment zone. This is the case for the DG, and AA guns. I intend to fix this.

[iricund]

Whilst I recognise that submarines should not be duking it out on the surface if at all possible, there are numerous occasions whereby I'll surface to finish off a crippled vessel with my deck gun rather than waste a torpedo on it. It may not be entirely historically accurate but when we're talking about the odd merchant with maybe a lone deck gun and a couple of AA mounts I think it's valid to preserve torps for future high value targets you may run across. Avoiding the deck gun is simple enough simply by positioning yourself outside its arc of fire if there is only one of them, but the thought of losing valuable watch members to AA gun fire would still irk me some.

I'd have thought in reality that a crippled vessel would hardly be gunning for the submarine at that point, rather they'd be trying to keep afloat and/or manning the lifeboats. Equally I'd be expecting me deck crew to be sitting there with small arms/manning the fixed guns to suppress/remove any enemy sailors suicidal enough to try and fire back at that point. That's still my only qualm. In terms of the engine damage etc the work looks fantastic. It's merely the small arms fire issue which I take issue with.

EDIT: I should point out that I'm purely talking about small arms and heavy machine gun fire here. If I'm cruising about on the surface with 5" shells hitting me I'd more than expect a few crew to be meeting their maker.

[Observer]

Originally Posted by iricund

Whilst I recognise that submarines should not be duking it out on the surface if at all possible, there are numerous occasions whereby I'll surface to finish off a crippled vessel with my deck gun rather than waste a torpedo on it. It may not be entirely historically accurate but when we're talking about the odd merchant with maybe a lone deck gun and a couple of AA mounts I think it's valid to preserve torps for future high value targets you may run across. Avoiding the deck gun is simple enough simply by positioning yourself outside its arc of fire if there is only one of them, but the thought of losing valuable watch members to AA gun fire would still irk me some.

I'd have thought in reality that a crippled vessel would hardly be gunning for the submarine at that point, rather they'd be trying to keep afloat and/or manning the lifeboats. Equally I'd be expecting me deck crew to be sitting there with small arms/manning the fixed guns to suppress/remove any enemy sailors suicidal enough to try and fire back at that point. That's still my only qualm. In terms of the engine damage etc the work looks fantastic. It's merely the small arms fire issue which I take issue with.

EDIT: I should point out that I'm purely talking about small arms and heavy machine gun fire here. If I'm cruising about on the surface with 5" shells hitting me I'd more than expect a few crew to be meeting their maker.

In the case of small arms fire, range is your friend. You won't have to worry about it if you back off to 2 - 2.5 kyds.

[akdavis]

Originally Posted by iricund

Whilst I recognise that submarines should not be duking it out on the surface if at all possible, there are numerous occasions whereby I'll surface to finish off a crippled vessel with my deck gun rather than waste a torpedo on it. It may not be entirely historically accurate but when we're talking about the odd merchant with maybe a lone deck gun and a couple of AA mounts I think it's valid to preserve torps for future high value targets you may run across. Avoiding the deck gun is simple enough simply by positioning yourself outside its arc of fire if there is only one of them, but the thought of losing valuable watch members to AA gun fire would still irk me some.

Sounds like you want them to stay mostly invulnerable to fire then. Seriously though, you should have to weigh the risks of engaging in a surface action just to save a mechanical device. It should not be the no-brainer decision it always was in the past.

It's just too bad that the captain (you) can't be shot on the bridge and insta-end your career.

[Observer]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

VERY interesting stuff. For the diesels and motors did you remove these two sections?

and

If so, I can see what you then did in Equipment.upc to make the units the game sees show up as "Engine 1 & 3" and so forth.

I basically rewrote the Engine Room equipment section of the Gato.upc. See the text below:

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 1]
ID= EqSlotEnginesWall
NameDisplayable= Engine Rooms Pressure Hull ;Bulkhead
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=NULL
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, Bulkhead
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 201
DamageDescription1= NULL,    0,    0.3,    0,    0,    1,    Minor Leak,            0,    0,    NULL,    0.1,    0.2,    0.2
DamageDescription2= NULL,    0.3,    0.6,    0,    0,    1,    Large hole,            0,    0,    NULL,     0.2,    0.5,    0.5
DamageDescription3= NULL,    0.6,    0.9,    0,    0,    1,    Wall breached,            0,    0,    NULL,    0.5,    0.7,    1
DamageDescription4= NULL,    0.9,    1,    0,    0,    1,    Wall breached,            0,    0,    NULL,    0.7,    1,    1000000

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 2]
ID= EqSlotSDE
NameDisplayable= No 1 & 3 Main Engines
Type=EqFTypeEngineDiesel
AcceptedTypes=GatoDEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, StbdDieselEngines
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 21
DamageDescription1= NULL,    0,    0.3,    0,    0,    1,    small malfunction,        0,    0,    NULL,    0.3,    0.6,    24
DamageDescription2= NULL,    0.3,    0.5,    0,    0,    1,    Misaligned Axis,        0,    0,    NULL,     0.45,    0.8,    96
DamageDescription3= NULL,    0.5,    0.6,    0,    0,    1,    Broken Axle,            0,    0,    NULL,    0.5,    1,    1000000
DamageDescription4= NULL,    0.6,    0.8,    0,    0,    1,    small malfunction,        0,    0,    NULL,    0.8,    0.6,    24
DamageDescription5= NULL,    0.8,    1,    0,    0,    1,    Misaligned Axis,        0,    0,    NULL,     0.95,    0.8,    96

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 3]
ID= EqSlotPDE
NameDisplayable= No 2 & 4 Main Engines
Type=EqFTypeEngineDiesel
AcceptedTypes=GatoDEngine
UserCustomizable=Yes ;No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, PortDieselEngines
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 55
DamageDescription1= NULL,    0,    0.3,    0,    0,    1,    small malfunction,        0,    0,    NULL,    0.3,    0.6,    24
DamageDescription2= NULL,    0.3,    0.5,    0,    0,    1,    Misaligned Axis,        0,    0,    NULL,     0.45,    0.8,    96
DamageDescription3= NULL,    0.5,    0.6,    0,    0,    1,    Broken Axle,            0,    0,    NULL,    0.5,    1,    1000000
DamageDescription4= NULL,    0.6,    0.8,    0,    0,    1,    small malfunction,        0,    0,    NULL,    0.8,    0.6,    24
DamageDescription5= NULL,    0.8,    1,    0,    0,    1,    Misaligned Axis,        0,    0,    NULL,     0.95,    0.8,    96

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 4]
ID= EqSlotSEE
NameDisplayable= No 1 & 3 Electric Engines
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoEEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, StbdElectricEngines
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 22
DamageDescription1= NULL,    0,    0.3,    0,    0,    1,    small malfunction,        0,    0,    NULL,    0.3,    0.6,    24
DamageDescription2= NULL,    0.3,    0.5,    0,    0,    1,    Misaligned Axis,        0,    0,    NULL,     0.45,    0.8,    96
DamageDescription3= NULL,    0.5,    0.6,    0,    0,    1,    Broken Axle,            0,    0,    NULL,    0.5,    1,    1000000
DamageDescription4= NULL,    0.6,    0.8,    0,    0,    1,    small malfunction,        0,    0,    NULL,    0.8,    0.6,    24
DamageDescription5= NULL,    0.8,    1,    0,    0,    1,    Misaligned Axis,        0,    0,    NULL,     0.95,    0.8,    96

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 5]
ID= EqSlotPEE
NameDisplayable= No 2 & 4 Electric Engines
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoEEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, PortElectricEngines
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 56
DamageDescription1= NULL,    0,    0.3,    0,    0,    1,    small malfunction,        0,    0,    NULL,    0.3,    0.6,    24
DamageDescription2= NULL,    0.3,    0.5,    0,    0,    1,    Misaligned Axis,        0,    0,    NULL,     0.45,    0.8,    96
DamageDescription3= NULL,    0.5,    0.6,    0,    0,    1,    Broken Axle,            0,    0,    NULL,    0.5,    1,    1000000
DamageDescription4= NULL,    0.6,    0.8,    0,    0,    1,    small malfunction,        0,    0,    NULL,    0.8,    0.6,    24
DamageDescription5= NULL,    0.8,    1,    0,    0,    1,    Misaligned Axis,        0,    0,    NULL,     0.95,    0.8,    96

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 6]
ID= GatoSternBattery
NameDisplayable= Aft Battery
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=NULL
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, GatoSternBatteryBasic
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 59

Please note that this text addresses both the damage repair time and the actual equipment entry. The damage repair portion requires significantly more explanation to understand the what and why.

Here is the relevant section from the equipment.upc which I have rewritten some portions of as well. It's my intention to also address the other equipment labels, but this is easy and a low priority.

[Equipment 50]
ID=PortDieselEngines
NameDisplayable= No. 2 & 4 Diesel Engines
FunctionalType= EqFTypeEngineDiesel
EquipmentInterval= NULL, NULL
EquipmentSlotType=NULL 
ExternalLinkName3D= NULL
Hitpoints= 100
DamageDescription1= NULL,    0,    0.3,    0,    0,    1,    small malfunction,        0,    0,    NULL,    0.3,    0.6,    24
DamageDescription2= NULL,    0.3,    0.5,    0,    0,    1,    Misaligned Axis,        0,    0,    NULL,     0.45,    0.8,    96
DamageDescription3= NULL,    0.5,    0.6,    0,    0,    1,    Broken Axle,            0,    0,    NULL,    0.5,    1,    1000000
DamageDescription4= NULL,    0.6,    0.8,    0,    0,    1,    small malfunction,        0,    0,    NULL,    0.8,    0.6,    24
DamageDescription5= NULL,    0.8,    1,    0,    0,    1,    Misaligned Axis,        0,    0,    NULL,     0.95,    0.8,    96

[Equipment 51]
ID=StbdElectricEngines
NameDisplayable= No. 1 & 3 Electric Engines
FunctionalType= EqFTypeEngineElectric
EquipmentInterval= NULL, NULL
EquipmentSlotType=NULL 
ExternalLinkName3D= NULL
Hitpoints= 100
DamageDescription1= NULL,    0,    0.3,    0,    0,    1,    small malfunction,        0,    0,    NULL,    0.3,    0.6,    24
DamageDescription2= NULL,    0.3,    0.5,    0,    0,    1,    Misaligned Axis,        0,    0,    NULL,     0.45,    0.8,    96
DamageDescription3= NULL,    0.5,    0.6,    0,    0,    1,    Broken Axle,            0,    0,    NULL,    0.5,    1,    1000000
DamageDescription4= NULL,    0.6,    0.8,    0,    0,    1,    small malfunction,        0,    0,    NULL,    0.8,    0.6,    24
DamageDescription5= NULL,    0.8,    1,    0,    0,    1,    Misaligned Axis,        0,    0,    NULL,     0.95,    0.8,    96

[tater]

Very very cool. Now we can make some .30 cal MGs for small boats, and they'll actually be meaningful

[chrysanthos]

i want to learn how to change those zone in order to make the damage control to work....i have some ships that this damage is not working:/ can you help me please?