SH3 the best u-boat sim (for me)?

Ballast · 03-02-09, 09:32 AM

Greetings from a first time poster!

Sorry about the controversial title, but I wanted a more concrete answers than I found searching older threads.

A few words about myself : Since I was a kid I liked submarine simulations, probably has to do with my dad serving as a machinist on a T-class during the late 60's and having all those old technical manuals in the house...
Started with Silent Service II (on 5.25" floppies) and the demo version of 688 Attack Sub back in the day, forgot about it for years and then stumbled upon this site sometime around 2001/2, I guess, continued to discover CAOD which I really liked but with my studies and other interests I stopped playing. I've been a long time semi-lurker on the site/forums (I drop in once every year or so to see what's new).

Well, in the last few days my interest reignited and checking subsim.com again I realized that SH3, which was state-of-the-art and full priced back in 2005 with its 100(!) rating by Neal, can now run on almost any modern computer and be purchased dirt cheap. Which I did and am waiting for it to arrive...

What I'm looking for is the best U-boat sim in terms of immersion and atmosphere as I really like reading about and watching documentaries on the battle of the Atlantic. It's nice to have eye-candy (I understand that SHIV is the best in that regard) but as someone said, subsim is more about state of mind and imagination and, like most everyone here, I don't like sims which scarifice gaming experience for graphics. The more realistic subsims I consider a "thinking man's" games, and although I might not play with manual-TDC-no-TC-no-showering-100%-realism for a while I still want that sensation of being inside a u-boat immersed in the dark waters of the Atlantic.

So SH3 must be ideal for me, right? but searching this and Ubi forums it turns out many people criticized SH3 as being too "arcadey", with poor AI and lacking wolfpacks, radio traffic etc. and many still consider AOD to be the best in the atmoshpere dept.
True, many threads where from the 2005 era, when the game was just released and before the modder really got to work and gave us the wonders (so I hear) of GWX and co...but still...

So what I'd like is your input on this - how would you compare SH3 to the old AOD and maybe the newer, open source DftD (which is getting better, I understand) in the terms I mentioned above? Can GWX really change the behavior and feeling of the game without changing the code? Is SH3+GWX really that good? Is SH3 worth the time and learning curve or should I just stick with AOD?

I understand a lot of it is a matter of taste and I realize that asking this on the SH3 forum is probably rigging the answer but I'd like to hear people's opinion (and not just game bashing as I've seen on some other threads).

thanks!

03-02-09, 10:26 AM

Erstmal, welcome to this group of complete sub maniacs

.

Then, compared to AOD, SHIII + GWX3.0 is on par (gameplay), without GWX it's way back. In stock version you could play it at 100% like a shooter, if you try this with GWX... well... some simulated fishes gonna have some good feasting. For me, it's worth the time for learning.

I can't compare it to DftD (errr, what is DftD).

mookiemookie · 03-02-09, 10:44 AM

SH3 is a great, great sim. The GWX team has done some amazing stuff with the game. At the last Subsim meetup, Dan Dimitrescu (lead designer on SH3 and SHIV) said that the designers had no idea how the GWX team did some of the things they've done with the game.

It has it's shortcomings, obviously. The most glaring for me is the absence of wolfpacks, or any AI submarines at all. GWX has added German, U.S. and British subs but they act like surface ships and can only use deck guns and can't shoot torpedoes. The lack of radio traffic has also been addressed in GWX as well. In fact, people complain that there's too much of it now!

The AI can act a bit funny at times, especially if you know its shortcomings and exploit them (harbor raids come to mind). But on the whole, I'd say it's well worth the time and money spent. I bought the game back in late 2005 and have had a blast with it ever since then.

As far as learning curve goes, you are always welcome to ask any questions here at subsim. Unlike many forums on the internet, we welcome new players and their questions and I doubt you'd every have someone bite your head off over asking a "n00b" question.

With that being said: Welcome aboard!

Sailor Steve · 03-02-09, 12:22 PM

WELCOME ABOARD!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballast

What I'm looking for is the best U-boat sim in terms of immersion and atmosphere as I really like reading about and watching documentaries on the battle of the Atlantic. It's nice to have eye-candy (I understand that SHIV is the best in that regard)

Actually SH4 is better in some areas of gameplay as well, mainly the much-improved crew management system. That said, if your desire is to play the ubootwaffe then SH3 is still the way to go.

Quote:

So SH3 must be ideal for me, right? but searching this and Ubi forums it turns out many people criticized SH3 as being too "arcadey", with poor AI and lacking wolfpacks, radio traffic etc. and many still consider AOD to be the best in the atmoshpere dept.
True, many threads where from the 2005 era, when the game was just released and before the modder really got to work and gave us the wonders (so I hear) of GWX and co...but still...

Yes, those were the early days. Stock SH3 seemed to be more about eye candy than gameplay, but it was also highly experimental for the time. A lot of our concerns were answered by a delayed release (originally it wasn't even supposed to have a dynamic career mode, but we convinced them to change that) and four excellent patches. Even then there were a few who posted their opinion that AOD was still better.

Quote:

So what I'd like is your input on this - how would you compare SH3 to the old AOD and maybe the newer, open source DftD (which is getting better, I understand) in the terms I mentioned above? Can GWX really change the behavior and feeling of the game without changing the code? Is SH3+GWX really that good? Is SH3 worth the time and learning curve or should I just stick with AOD?

I understand a lot of it is a matter of taste and I realize that asking this on the SH3 forum is probably rigging the answer but I'd like to hear people's opinion (and not just game bashing as I've seen on some other threads).

It really is that good, depending on what you consider "good" (that's right, always hedge your bets). Some of the AI problems can't be overcome, even by the best mods. On the other hand, what some call "eye candy" others call "immersion". Sailing out of your home base with the band playing and seeing all the ships come and go and the planes flying overhead sometimes takes up an entire game session for me. While external views are technically unrealistic, watching a convoy from close up can really be a beautiful thing to see. Watching the interior of the sub shake and your crew crouch and look up when the depth charges go off can add to your own terror.

Also a place where SH3 really shines is the sound. Several people have made mods which improve on the sounds, including my favorite - DBSM, which substitutes sounds from Das Boot for the stock game sounds. And then there's the manual targetting. You don't have to use it - I don't - but if you decide you want to it's possible to do it very realistically, right down to downloading and making your own whiz-wheel (circular slide rule) or using one of the mods that puts it onscreen.

All told, SH3 is a beautiful experience these days, and since it can be had already patched for very cheap you should definitely give it a try.

nikbear · 03-02-09, 12:50 PM

I have never,ever been gripped by a PC game as I have with SH3/GWX,Iam totally addicted,and if you give it a try,I bet you will be to

Welcome aboard

gord96 · 03-02-09, 01:26 PM

there is NO other option. Forget AoD. Classic game, but SH3 with GWX 3.0 and SH3 Commander is the pinnacle of U-Boat sims right now. You can't even compare it. You would be doing yourself a great dis-service to not get SH3 right now. And its not that hard to learn. With lots of realism settings you can adjust to your level.

Freiwillige · 03-02-09, 07:29 PM

AOD series is more realistic but not by much. SHIII is far more immersive! With SHIII your there in 1940 out alone deep in the Atlantic stalking the convoys.

SHIV, I tried to like it but after 4 weeks it came off my hardrive. For me it just lacks the charictor of SHIII and has less of the your really there feeling.

Its like this. In SHIII you feel your in the sim. SHIV you feel like your watching a great hollywood movie.

Thats my feeling on the matter.

GREY WOLF 3 · 03-02-09, 07:53 PM

SH3 with gwx gold is a must i cant stop playing it.

I run mine linked to a 32 inch lcd television with full surround sound and the sounds make you feel your in the boat .

_Seth_ · 03-03-09, 12:59 AM

Welcome aboard, Ballast!!

TheDudTorpedo · 03-03-09, 03:46 AM

I can't compare to other sub games, but I do appreciate complete immersion, and SH3 + GWX3 most certainly delivers in that regard. I strongly recommend giving it a go, and then post back here when your first depth charge attack shatters all cookies cutlery!

As for learning it : I did without even referring to the manual, admitedly not playing at 100% realism, but none-the-less a very easy game to learn.

Welcome

Ballast · 03-03-09, 08:26 AM

Thank you for your replies and warm welcome!

My copy has arrived but I keep it sealed for the time being, as I'm afraid I'd likely give
up all hope of having a life once I start playing

It's kindda funny being so much behind the curve, it's like showing up late for a party...
on the good side, I now get a mature sim with so many mods and a that great community resources and tips

Watched some clips on youtube and the graphics and realism look mind blowing, I can't believe it's all in-game and not some movie trailer.

I'll let you guys know how's it going when I get to it.

Otto Heinzmeir · 03-03-09, 08:39 AM

I havn't played Command:Aces of the Deep. I just read a review where someone said the best part was the campaign. They claimed the best tactic was to follow a convoy during the day and attack at night while surfaced, submerge and they resurface in a new location and attack again.

These sounds truer to real life tactics than what SH3 provides. There have been recent threads about the difficulty of surface attacks at night in SH3. I will be starting a new campaign soon to try out some tweeks Hitman did in the SIM.cfg file to help make night attacks more feasible, so will see how it goes.

With the stock game its almost mandatory to use periscope attacks at night.

Sailor Steve · 03-03-09, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballast

My copy has arrived but I keep it sealed for the time being, as I'm afraid I'd likely give
up all hope of having a life once I start playing

I'm not an addict! No, I'm not!:rotfl:

Quote:

It's kindda funny being so much behind the curve, it's like showing up late for a party...

But the party is still going, and will be for quite some time to come!

09-19-11, 04:22 AM

Hello,

Like Ballast, my late father was also an Engine Room Artificer on a T-Class in the late 60s. Anywhere I could play a role such as this ? Maybe 0.4 pre-release of Dftd? A Chief Engine Room Artificer would also do.

Great forum

E.R.A

Magic1111 · 09-19-11, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.R.A

Hello,

Like Ballast, my late father was also an Engine Room Artificer on a T-Class in the late 60s. Anywhere I could play a role such as this ? Maybe 0.4 pre-release of Dftd? A Chief Engine Room Artificer would also do.

Great forum

E.R.A

Welcome aboard!!!

03-02-09, 09:32 AM	#1
Ballast Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	SH3 the best u-boat sim (for me)? Greetings from a first time poster! Sorry about the controversial title, but I wanted a more concrete answers than I found searching older threads. A few words about myself : Since I was a kid I liked submarine simulations, probably has to do with my dad serving as a machinist on a T-class during the late 60's and having all those old technical manuals in the house... Started with Silent Service II (on 5.25" floppies) and the demo version of 688 Attack Sub back in the day, forgot about it for years and then stumbled upon this site sometime around 2001/2, I guess, continued to discover CAOD which I really liked but with my studies and other interests I stopped playing. I've been a long time semi-lurker on the site/forums (I drop in once every year or so to see what's new). Well, in the last few days my interest reignited and checking subsim.com again I realized that SH3, which was state-of-the-art and full priced back in 2005 with its 100(!) rating by Neal, can now run on almost any modern computer and be purchased dirt cheap. Which I did and am waiting for it to arrive... What I'm looking for is the best U-boat sim in terms of immersion and atmosphere as I really like reading about and watching documentaries on the battle of the Atlantic. It's nice to have eye-candy (I understand that SHIV is the best in that regard) but as someone said, subsim is more about state of mind and imagination and, like most everyone here, I don't like sims which scarifice gaming experience for graphics. The more realistic subsims I consider a "thinking man's" games, and although I might not play with manual-TDC-no-TC-no-showering-100%-realism for a while I still want that sensation of being inside a u-boat immersed in the dark waters of the Atlantic. So SH3 must be ideal for me, right? but searching this and Ubi forums it turns out many people criticized SH3 as being too "arcadey", with poor AI and lacking wolfpacks, radio traffic etc. and many still consider AOD to be the best in the atmoshpere dept. True, many threads where from the 2005 era, when the game was just released and before the modder really got to work and gave us the wonders (so I hear) of GWX and co...but still... So what I'd like is your input on this - how would you compare SH3 to the old AOD and maybe the newer, open source DftD (which is getting better, I understand) in the terms I mentioned above? Can GWX really change the behavior and feeling of the game without changing the code? Is SH3+GWX really that good? Is SH3 worth the time and learning curve or should I just stick with AOD? I understand a lot of it is a matter of taste and I realize that asking this on the SH3 forum is probably rigging the answer but I'd like to hear people's opinion (and not just game bashing as I've seen on some other threads). thanks!

03-02-09, 10:44 AM	#3
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	SH3 is a great, great sim. The GWX team has done some amazing stuff with the game. At the last Subsim meetup, Dan Dimitrescu (lead designer on SH3 and SHIV) said that the designers had no idea how the GWX team did some of the things they've done with the game. It has it's shortcomings, obviously. The most glaring for me is the absence of wolfpacks, or any AI submarines at all. GWX has added German, U.S. and British subs but they act like surface ships and can only use deck guns and can't shoot torpedoes. The lack of radio traffic has also been addressed in GWX as well. In fact, people complain that there's too much of it now! The AI can act a bit funny at times, especially if you know its shortcomings and exploit them (harbor raids come to mind). But on the whole, I'd say it's well worth the time and money spent. I bought the game back in late 2005 and have had a blast with it ever since then. As far as learning curve goes, you are always welcome to ask any questions here at subsim. Unlike many forums on the internet, we welcome new players and their questions and I doubt you'd every have someone bite your head off over asking a "n00b" question. With that being said: Welcome aboard! __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

03-02-09, 12:50 PM	#5
nikbear Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northampton,UK Posts: 1,859 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	I have never,ever been gripped by a PC game as I have with SH3/GWX,Iam totally addicted,and if you give it a try,I bet you will be toWelcome aboard __________________ 'It is not surely known when the grey wolf shall come upon the seat of the gods' Ericksmal.

03-03-09, 12:59 AM	#9
_Seth_ Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: In Tromsoe, @Tirpitz' final resting place.. Posts: 3,277 Downloads: 94 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard, Ballast!! __________________

09-19-11, 04:22 AM	#14
E.R.A Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Play a Maschinist / Engine Room Artificer anywhere? Hello, Like Ballast, my late father was also an Engine Room Artificer on a T-Class in the late 60s. Anywhere I could play a role such as this ? Maybe 0.4 pre-release of Dftd? A Chief Engine Room Artificer would also do. Great forum E.R.A

03-02-09, 10:26 AM	#2
gmuno Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Erstmal, welcome to this group of complete sub maniacs . Then, compared to AOD, SHIII + GWX3.0 is on par (gameplay), without GWX it's way back. In stock version you could play it at 100% like a shooter, if you try this with GWX... well... some simulated fishes gonna have some good feasting. For me, it's worth the time for learning. I can't compare it to DftD (errr, what is DftD).

03-02-09, 01:26 PM	#6
gord96 Commodore Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 627 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	there is NO other option. Forget AoD. Classic game, but SH3 with GWX 3.0 and SH3 Commander is the pinnacle of U-Boat sims right now. You can't even compare it. You would be doing yourself a great dis-service to not get SH3 right now. And its not that hard to learn. With lots of realism settings you can adjust to your level.

03-02-09, 07:29 PM	#7
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	AOD series is more realistic but not by much. SHIII is far more immersive! With SHIII your there in 1940 out alone deep in the Atlantic stalking the convoys. SHIV, I tried to like it but after 4 weeks it came off my hardrive. For me it just lacks the charictor of SHIII and has less of the your really there feeling. Its like this. In SHIII you feel your in the sim. SHIV you feel like your watching a great hollywood movie. Thats my feeling on the matter.

03-02-09, 07:53 PM	#8
GREY WOLF 3 中国水兵 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Down deep avoiding drm attacks Posts: 284 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	SH3 with gwx gold is a must i cant stop playing it. I run mine linked to a 32 inch lcd television with full surround sound and the sounds make you feel your in the boat .

03-03-09, 03:46 AM	#10
TheDudTorpedo Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 128 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	I can't compare to other sub games, but I do appreciate complete immersion, and SH3 + GWX3 most certainly delivers in that regard. I strongly recommend giving it a go, and then post back here when your first depth charge attack shatters all cookies cutlery! As for learning it : I did without even referring to the manual, admitedly not playing at 100% realism, but none-the-less a very easy game to learn. Welcome

03-03-09, 08:26 AM	#11
Ballast Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thank you for your replies and warm welcome! My copy has arrived but I keep it sealed for the time being, as I'm afraid I'd likely give up all hope of having a life once I start playing It's kindda funny being so much behind the curve, it's like showing up late for a party... on the good side, I now get a mature sim with so many mods and a that great community resources and tips Watched some clips on youtube and the graphics and realism look mind blowing, I can't believe it's all in-game and not some movie trailer. I'll let you guys know how's it going when I get to it.

03-03-09, 08:39 AM	#12
Otto Heinzmeir Weps Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Wilhelmshaven Local Pub Posts: 361 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I havn't played Command:Aces of the Deep. I just read a review where someone said the best part was the campaign. They claimed the best tactic was to follow a convoy during the day and attack at night while surfaced, submerge and they resurface in a new location and attack again. These sounds truer to real life tactics than what SH3 provides. There have been recent threads about the difficulty of surface attacks at night in SH3. I will be starting a new campaign soon to try out some tweeks Hitman did in the SIM.cfg file to help make night attacks more feasible, so will see how it goes. With the stock game its almost mandatory to use periscope attacks at night.