sonar profiles?

green_abobo · 10-16-11, 12:48 AM

a 'lil assist please?

how exactly do i use the frequency values produced by narrowband in game with the sonar profile pdf manual provided in the DW/manual/ folder?

i realize theres the frequency dial which can be "zoomed in" or out in order to classify platforms and it has something to do with that, but what exactly is it?

this is obviously a big deal or they wouldnt go out of their way to include the document, too bad it isnt part of the UNSI bible in game, ideally, once i figure out how to utilize it exactly.

i understand that youre supposed to compare the numbers with that of the document (to help with classification) and is especially handy if the contacts are bunched together (the akula towed array narrowband) but how does that work, and what role does the frequency dial play when comparing the values w/ the pdf?

hopefully you understand what it is im getting at. anything else i should be aware of? thank you.

stormrider_sp · 10-16-11, 04:52 PM

Every ship produces noise in a different way. Sonar hardware and software throughout history have evolved in order to filter them and recognize acoustic signatures. Think of any ship sailing, it has dozens, hundreds, sometimes thousands of noise emitting parts, like pumps, turbines, screws, fans, equipment vibrations... The noise travels through the water in different frequencies, the lower the frequency, the farther it will go.

So the first thing you do, is to zoom in and watch the lowest frequency, because it will be your first contact. It might not be possible to classify it at first instance, but as the contact closes in, zooming out, medium and higher frequencies start being detected to the point that you can compare to a list of recorded acoustic signatures. That way you can find a match and sometimes even particular ship inside its own class.

green_abobo · 10-16-11, 11:51 PM

thanks for the reply.

i understand the theory behind it. i just dont get how to use it; practically?

could you give me an example, comparing an in game reading and how you would use that to determine what it is; according to the pdf.

thats what i dont understand. especially the column with the frequency scales on the right side of the document, i see they match the frequency dial in narrowband...

Pisces · 10-17-11, 11:34 AM

You probably mean these pdf and Word-documents:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3402 [EDIT: Sailor Steve assigned a different download page to it. Corrected it. ]

This application is I think actually more usefull. Because it is a pain to select and make a list of all the units that fit to the frequencies that you find, by hand!.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=82476
(the link is dead so I uploaded it from my hardrive: http://www.gamefront.com/files/20897758)

I uploaded it just now to Gamefront, and asked Sailor Steve to add it to the Subsim.com download section. [EDIT: now at Subsim: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...=file&id=3403]

Basically the idea is to measure with the (mouse) cursor in the waterfall window (depends on sub which display it is, upper middle or bottom) which frequencies you find in the direction of the sensor/contact. There could be multiple contacts overlapping eachother and so you could find more frequencies that are near to one another but are from distinct units. (like 320 hertz next to 340 hz, as there are no units that emit these 2 frequencies at the same time. Each unit emits 1 specific frequency in 5 bands). You could start with the lowest frequencies but then you'll get a large list of possible units classes. Instead I would start with the highest visible frequency that the sensor detects. (You may need to increase your brightness/contrast/gamma settings of your videocard/monitor) That will narrow it down tremendously. Then wiggle the sensor direction a bit and see which lower freqencies fade out in sync with the higher frequency. These likely belong together. (Unless the different units are really close together bearingwise.) Noting which frequencies fade together limits the amount of possibilities even more. Then if you still have a list, instead of a definate identification of class, then I would compare the frequencies received of the other sonar sensors. Bow sonar doesn't detect frequencies the towed array is capable of detecting. Assuming you are close enough for them to be detectable.

And if it is still not definate you should start to combine it with ping frequencies of active sonar intercept, and/or ESM receptions.

siradamcollins · 10-20-11, 06:18 AM

i cant understand the subs passive systems. however just keep slamming away with active normaly works.
(sometimes) normally get sunk quite quickly too.
wonder why?

Gerald · 10-20-11, 06:22 AM

Jimbuna · 10-20-11, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siradamcollins

i cant understand the subs passive systems. however just keep slamming away with active normaly works.
(sometimes) normally get sunk quite quickly too.
wonder why?

Nothing like announcing your presence

10-16-11, 12:48 AM	#1
green_abobo Sparky Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: running silent 700 meters off your starboard bow.. Posts: 152 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	sonar profiles? a 'lil assist please? how exactly do i use the frequency values produced by narrowband in game with the sonar profile pdf manual provided in the DW/manual/ folder? i realize theres the frequency dial which can be "zoomed in" or out in order to classify platforms and it has something to do with that, but what exactly is it? this is obviously a big deal or they wouldnt go out of their way to include the document, too bad it isnt part of the UNSI bible in game, ideally, once i figure out how to utilize it exactly. i understand that youre supposed to compare the numbers with that of the document (to help with classification) and is especially handy if the contacts are bunched together (the akula towed array narrowband) but how does that work, and what role does the frequency dial play when comparing the values w/ the pdf? hopefully you understand what it is im getting at. anything else i should be aware of? thank you. __________________

10-16-11, 04:52 PM	#2
stormrider_sp Planesman Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 186 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	Every ship produces noise in a different way. Sonar hardware and software throughout history have evolved in order to filter them and recognize acoustic signatures. Think of any ship sailing, it has dozens, hundreds, sometimes thousands of noise emitting parts, like pumps, turbines, screws, fans, equipment vibrations... The noise travels through the water in different frequencies, the lower the frequency, the farther it will go. So the first thing you do, is to zoom in and watch the lowest frequency, because it will be your first contact. It might not be possible to classify it at first instance, but as the contact closes in, zooming out, medium and higher frequencies start being detected to the point that you can compare to a list of recorded acoustic signatures. That way you can find a match and sometimes even particular ship inside its own class. __________________

10-16-11, 11:51 PM	#3
green_abobo Sparky Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: running silent 700 meters off your starboard bow.. Posts: 152 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	thanks for the reply. i understand the theory behind it. i just dont get how to use it; practically? could you give me an example, comparing an in game reading and how you would use that to determine what it is; according to the pdf. thats what i dont understand. especially the column with the frequency scales on the right side of the document, i see they match the frequency dial in narrowband... __________________

10-17-11, 11:34 AM	#4
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	You probably mean these pdf and Word-documents: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3402 [EDIT: Sailor Steve assigned a different download page to it. Corrected it. ] This application is I think actually more usefull. Because it is a pain to select and make a list of all the units that fit to the frequencies that you find, by hand!. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=82476 (the link is dead so I uploaded it from my hardrive: http://www.gamefront.com/files/20897758) I uploaded it just now to Gamefront, and asked Sailor Steve to add it to the Subsim.com download section. [EDIT: now at Subsim: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...=file&id=3403] Basically the idea is to measure with the (mouse) cursor in the waterfall window (depends on sub which display it is, upper middle or bottom) which frequencies you find in the direction of the sensor/contact. There could be multiple contacts overlapping eachother and so you could find more frequencies that are near to one another but are from distinct units. (like 320 hertz next to 340 hz, as there are no units that emit these 2 frequencies at the same time. Each unit emits 1 specific frequency in 5 bands). You could start with the lowest frequencies but then you'll get a large list of possible units classes. Instead I would start with the highest visible frequency that the sensor detects. (You may need to increase your brightness/contrast/gamma settings of your videocard/monitor) That will narrow it down tremendously. Then wiggle the sensor direction a bit and see which lower freqencies fade out in sync with the higher frequency. These likely belong together. (Unless the different units are really close together bearingwise.) Noting which frequencies fade together limits the amount of possibilities even more. Then if you still have a list, instead of a definate identification of class, then I would compare the frequencies received of the other sonar sensors. Bow sonar doesn't detect frequencies the towed array is capable of detecting. Assuming you are close enough for them to be detectable. And if it is still not definate you should start to combine it with ping frequencies of active sonar intercept, and/or ESM receptions. __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads Last edited by Pisces; 10-17-11 at 01:15 PM.

10-20-11, 06:22 AM	#6
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Welcome to SubSim Siradamcollins! __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

10-20-11, 06:18 AM	#5
siradamcollins Bilge Rat Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	i cant understand the subs passive systems. however just keep slamming away with active normaly works. (sometimes) normally get sunk quite quickly too. wonder why?