Confederate Flag License Plate Sparks Debate

[Feuer Frei!]

Would you buy a license plate with a Confederate flag on it? State officials are looking at possibly launching a new Texas state license plate honoring veterans of the War Between the States. Mr. Hilary Shelton, with the NAACP in Washington, D.C., said that the Civil War may not be something we want to celebrate.
“When many look at that history, we think about it in terms of secession, that is we were seceding from the Union in the southern parts of the country,” explained Shelton. “Many would view that, quite frankly, as treason, because they meant to actually destroy the existing governmental structure. But when we dig deeper, the issue becomes even more offensive to many African Americans and those that sought freedom for those of darker skin in our country.”
“When you understand the Confederate history, and what it stood for,” said Dallas resident Mark Jones, “it’s directly slapping African Americans in the face.”
In terms of the Civil War, Shelton said that the Confederate flag was actually very un-American. “It was the flag that was flown during a war to actually tear the nation apart,” Shelton explained.
“I don’t think that this will unify us,” said Carrollton resident Carolina Arreola. “Our patriotism is to the Unites States flag.”
But the Texas Sons of Confederate Veterans have renewed their push for a Texas license plate that includes the rebel flag in its design.
Thomas Muhammed founded an organization to recover reparations for slavery. Still, he would not oppose the license plates. “I don’t see how a flag hurts someone, as long as the people displaying these license plates are not killing people physically who are of African descent.” Muhammed said.
Currently, nine states already allow the license plates. A statement in a recent newsletter from the Texas Division of the Sons of Confederate Veterans said, “…the Florida Division, the eleventh state, has just filed a lawsuit against the DOT there after their request was denied. I am confident their case will prevail, because legal precedents are in place. I am hopeful that the Texas DOT also realizes this as they consider our application.”
(Note: Despite the above quote, the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles is actually the state agency responsible for the state license plates, NOT the Texas Department of Transportation.)
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survey software Shelton said that, ultimately, the issue is not about feelings over the Confederacy or those who fought in the Civil War. “The issue here is whether or not we should allow state dollars to be utilized to actually continue to advance these notions of the ‘Old Confederacy,’ and somehow or another that slavery and all those other things that were parts of that Confederacy were something worth celebrating. I think many, many of us would say the answer is absolutely ‘no.’”
However, the City of Dallas already has a large Confederate memorial and several schools named after Confederate generals.
The state board that regulates license plates has rejected Confederate flag license plates before, but the issue is set to come up again at an upcoming meeting that has not yet been scheduled.


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[Onkel Neal]

Oh god, I wish they would give the Confederacy a rest.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Oh god, I wish they would give the Confederacy a rest.

Agreed. It's a relic of a stupid time and nothing to be proud of. Of all the things this state could honor, all the achievements and true heritage that has made a lasting POSITIVE impact on this world, they choose to drag out the godforsaken Confederate flag.

Just let the damn thing die and be resigned to the scrap heap of history.

[Freiwillige]

“Many would view that, quite frankly, as treason, because they meant to actually destroy the existing governmental structure."

Well history revisionists guy, most states had the legal right to break from the union (Not treason) and to this day some still do.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

Well history revisionists guy, most states had the legal right to break from the union (Not treason) and to this day some still do.

Better check your facts before calling names. Texas v. White settled the secession question once and for all and any and all secession clauses or ordinances in the various states are null. The Union is perpetual and indissoluble.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Better check your facts before calling names. Texas v. White settled the secession question once and for all and any and all secession clauses or ordinances in the various states are null. The Union is perpetual and indissoluble.

I disagree. Maybe legal precedent (a flimsy and temporal pretext) says the Union is perpetual and, what that other is, now, but that could easily change. It's nuts to think that the US is a big backer of self-determination all over the world but not at home.

Majority rules! And if a state wants out of this sinking ship, that's the will of the people, who has the right to oppose?

Originally Posted by Bakkels

Well as a non American I'm no expert. And what Mookie said looks to make sense. But I always wondered what that flag exactly means nowadays. I mean I know it was the flag of the south in the Civil War, but what is it's meaning now? Does it just represent a general feel of rebellion? Or does it have a racial connotation too?
I'm just curious since I see this flag coming up in movies and series now and then and I always wonder what it is exactly that it stands for?

Speaking for myself, a native Southerner, I think most who fly the flag see it as a way of flipping off authority. It also represents the will and determination of the South to hold on to their way of life (which was pretty shabby, on the whole, but hey).

Illegal rebellion, ha, the US was founded on that concept, right, Jim?

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Better check your facts before calling names. Texas v. White settled the secession question once and for all and any and all secession clauses or ordinances in the various states are null. The Union is perpetual and indissoluble.

Just like the old USSR, right?

And the old British Empire, right?

They too had their laws.

[Bakkels]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Agreed. It's a relic of a stupid time and nothing to be proud of. Of all the things this state could honor, all the achievements and true heritage that has made a lasting POSITIVE impact on this world, they choose to drag out the godforsaken Confederate flag.

Just let the damn thing die and be resigned to the scrap heap of history.

Well as a non American I'm no expert. And what Mookie said looks to make sense. But I always wondered what that flag exactly means nowadays. I mean I know it was the flag of the south in the Civil War, but what is it's meaning now? Does it just represent a general feel of rebellion? Or does it have a racial connotation too?
I'm just curious since I see this flag coming up in movies and series now and then and I always wonder what it is exactly that it stands for?

[Platapus]

What is interesting is that the flag displayed in that article is not the confederate flag.

It is either the Confederate Battle Flag or the Confederate Naval Jack. Both of which were military flags not national flags.

That's what is so funny. These people who want to recognize their heritage don't even know what the flag of the confederacy even looks like.

http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_o...tes_of_America

I would not have a problem if people wanted to display the flag of the confederacy (any version). As that would be a historical national flag from a period of our history. I do, however, have a problem with people displaying a battle flag of an illegal rebellion.

Displaying a battle flag can be considered an aggressive action.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

But it's not a "flimsy and temporal" legal precedent that says the Union is perpetual. It's the Constitution that does, and the Articles of Confederation before that. Salmon P. Chase:

"(The Union of the States) was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form and character and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these, the Union was solemnly declared to 'be perpetual.' And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained 'to form a more perfect Union.' It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?"

That's really reaching, in my opinion. Reminds me of Bible interpretating. If the Constitution had declared right out "Once a state enters into the Union, it cannot leave, ever." that would have made an arguement of indissolublity.

If you want to throw out the Constitution and say screw you guys, we're outta here, that's one thing. It could be the will of the people. It could be the right thing to do. But you can't say it wouldn't be treason and destroying the existing governmental structure, and no state has the legal right to do it.

Again, I disagree. I'm not a Constituional scholar at all, but in the end, as I see it, the Constitution, awesome as it is, is still just a document of law and laws change. It's like the War Powers Act, it can be circumvented. The Constitution was created on the basis of rebellion. Hard to argue that is it the last word in non-rebellion.

Some would say that they don't mean it as advocating slavery, but the way I see it, the history of that flag and slavery are so intertwined as to be inseparable. It was an ugly time in our nation's history, and nothing to be romanticized or celebrated.

Yeah, "state's rights" they say. The "state right" that mattered the most was the right to slavery. The war was over slavery, simple as that. Without slavery, there would have been nothing contentious between the North and South, nothing to get secession started. The Conferedate flag will always be linked to slavery advocation.