Secretary of Defence Robert Gates's last battle

[Gerald]

After serving presidents Bush and Obama, Robert Gates is retiring at the end of the month.

Robert Gates is fighting his last battle. Few defence secretaries have been so widely praised as a wise and calm adviser. After serving both George W Bush and Barack Obama, he is now finishing up a farewell tour.

Whether saying goodbye to soldiers in Afghanistan, or Nato colleagues in Europe, his message is the same, and it is meant to be heard in the White House.

From Nato headquarters he said: "Having arrived in Brussels after my 12th and last visit to Afghanistan as secretary of defence, I shared my view that we are making substantial progress on the ground.

I also reiterated my belief that these gains could be threatened if we do not proceed with the transition to Afghan security lead in a deliberate, organised and co-ordinated manner.

"Even as the United States begins to draw down in the next month, I assured my fellow ministers there will be no rush to the exits on our part. And we expect the same from our allies."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13722359


Note: 9 June 2011 Last updated at 23:09 GMT

[flatsixes]

True to form, Gate's parting shot was a doozy. A long overdue doozy.

“The blunt reality is that there will be dwindling appetite and patience in the U.S. Congress, and in the American body politic writ large, to expend increasingly precious funds on behalf of nations that are apparently unwilling to devote the necessary resources ... to be serious and capable partners in their own defense

Ahem......

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by flatsixes

True to form, Gate's parting shot was a doozy. A long overdue doozy.



Ahem......

I saw that on the UK news today and think he is making a valid point.

[mookiemookie]

After reading stories about how inept the Afghani army and police forces are, I think it's a very good point.

[MH]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

After reading stories about how inept the Afghani army and police forces are, I think it's a very good point.

Its to be expected of afghans.
Wasn't he referring more to European inept and defence budgets cuts?

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by MH

Its to be expected of afghans.
Wasn't he referring more to European inept and defence budgets cuts?

Oh, I guess he was, wasn't he? But that's also a good point too. The U.S. cannot continue to shoulder the financial load for everyone.

[Jimbuna]

There was even speculation on one news channel that should Europe further weaken iself the US may decide to leave NATO.

[Dan D]

Yes,yes, but what about the Germans?

According to this author, here is a picture: http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/about_thomas_e_ricks

..Germany has been unleashed by the Euro, he [Robert Kaplan] said, and the country is showing itself to be an "avant garde" major power, wielding influence politically and economically but not militarily. At least for the moment: "I don't believe that German quasi-pacifism is permanent."

..I also think that the rise of Germany may make NATO relevant again. Remember the old line from the 1950s, that "the purpose of NATO was to keep the Soviets out, the Americans in, and the Germans down"? Well, if Germany is beginning to throw around its weight, NATO may be the way to control that a bit. Keep in mind that the history of Europe since the Romans has been basically, What to do about Germany?"

Could be a mistake for the US to leave the NATO :-)
Can you trust the Germans?

[Jimbuna]

After 9arguably) causing two world wars I can't see that happening again

Besides....we've the perfect solution these days...the A-bomb

[MH]

Originally Posted by Dan D

Can you trust the Germans?

If anything i wouldn't trust Putin
If EU collapses because of economic problems it could be messy but still cant see them going to war with each other.
The circumstances are too different.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Dan D

Yes,yes, but what about the Germans?

According to this author, here is a picture: http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/about_thomas_e_ricks

..Germany has been unleashed by the Euro, he [Robert Kaplan] said, and the country is showing itself to be an "avant garde" major power, wielding influence politically and economically but not militarily. At least for the moment: "I don't believe that German quasi-pacifism is permanent."

..I also think that the rise of Germany may make NATO relevant again. Remember the old line from the 1950s, that "the purpose of NATO was to keep the Soviets out, the Americans in, and the Germans down"? Well, if Germany is beginning to throw around its weight, NATO may be the way to control that a bit. Keep in mind that the history of Europe since the Romans has been basically, What to do about Germany?"

Could be a mistake for the US to leave the NATO :-)
Can you trust the Germans?

No.

Saying this as a German being at war with his country's political drift. If I were younger again and would have a realistic perspective, I would leave Germany. And the whole EU, of course, but especially Germany.

[Gerald]

Sky, it is never too late to make changes to your life,

Sky, it is never too late to make changes to your life

That's true, I have known people in their 80s and 90s just bugger off all across the globe for a change of life.
However you have to want to go somewhere, and since it appears Sky not only hates Germany and europe but seems to have a problem with the whole world and humanity it does narrow down his options somewhat

[Bakkels]

Originally Posted by Dan D

Y... At least for the moment: "I don't believe that German quasi-pacifism is permanent."

..I also think that the rise of Germany may make NATO relevant again. Remember the old line from the 1950s, that "the purpose of NATO was to keep the Soviets out, the Americans in, and the Germans down"? Well, if Germany is beginning to throw around its weight, NATO may be the way to control that a bit. Keep in mind that the history of Europe since the Romans has been basically, What to do about Germany?"

Could be a mistake for the US to leave the NATO :-)
Can you trust the Germans?

Can you trust the Germans? I think this guy actually didn't learn a single thing from WWII. He very cleverly doesn't even mention the war, but he's screaming it between the lines.
What we should learn from WWII (imo of course) is that all people under certain circumstances are capable of horrendous atrocities. Of course this happened in Germany, but it could have just as easily happened in any other country given certain circumstances.
The tone of this text is that it's something cultural (or even racial?) that Germans aren't to be trusted. A very weird way of thinking in my opinion.

He should also brush up on his European history btw:

"Keep in mind that the history of Europe since the Romans has been basically, What to do about Germany?"

Really? Since the Roman times, all European city states and countries have waged war amongst themselves at one time or another. Germany, as a unified country didn't come into existence for about another 1000 years after the Romans..
The general idea through the centuries has been "What to do about ... (insert country that was a threat to another country at the time)"

Sure, there's probably plenty of things wrong in Germany, on that topic I'm sure Skybird has a lot to say. But reading posts from Subsim members, I'm inclined to think everybody here finds that there's plenty of things wrong with each of our countries/governments. Kaplan makes it sound as if Germany is lying in wait to start another third reich or something. I don't know, this Kaplan fellow has kind of a shrewd and malicious way of putting things.

[elephantium]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

After 9arguably) causing two world wars I can't see that happening again

Besides....we've the perfect solution these days...the A-bomb

Agreed, but only if the question at hand is "What to do about the people that just A-bombed us?"