Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony

[Feuer Frei!]

A federal judge has ordered a Texas school district to prohibit public prayer at a high school graduation ceremony.
Chief U.S. District Judge Fred Biery’s order against the Medina Valley Independent School District also forbids students from using specific religious words including “prayer” and “amen.”
The ruling was in response to a lawsuit filed by Christa and Danny Schultz. Their son is among those scheduled to participate in Saturday’s graduation ceremony. The judge declared that the Schultz family and their son would “suffer irreparable harm” if anyone prayed at the ceremony.
Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott said the school district is in the process of appealing the ruling, and his office has agreed to file a brief in their support.
“Part of this goes to the very heart of the unraveling of moral values in this country,” Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott told Fox News Radio, saying the judge wanted to turn school administrators into “speech police.”
“I’ve never seen such a restriction on speech issued by a court or the government,” Abbott told Fox News Radio. “It seems like a trampling of the First Amendment rather than protecting the First Amendment.”
Judge Biery’s ruling banned students and other speakers from using religious language in their speeches. Among the banned words or phrases are: “join in prayer,” “bow their heads,” “amen,” and “prayer.”
He also ordered the school district to remove the terms “invocation” and “benediction” from the graduation program.
“These terms shall be replaced with ‘opening remarks’ and ‘closing remarks,'” the judge’s order stated. His ruling also prohibits anyone from saying, “in [a deity’s name] we pray.”
Should a student violate the order, school district officials could find themselves in legal trouble. Judge Biery ordered that his ruling be “enforced by incarceration or other sanctions for contempt of Court if not obeyed by District official (sic) and their agents.”
The Texas attorney general called the ruling unconstitutional and a blatant attack from those who do not believe in God -- “attempts by atheists and agnostics to use courts to eliminate from the public landscape any and all references to God whatsoever.”
“This is the challenge we are dealing with here,” he said. “(It’s) an ongoing attempt to purge God from the public setting while at the same time demanding from the courts an increased yielding to all things atheist and agnostic.”
Ayesa Khan, an attorney representing the student and his parents, told KABB-TV she was delighted in the judge’s decision.
“It caused him a great deal of anxiety,” she said, referring to her teenage client. “He has gone to meet with the principal to try and talk in a civilized way about long-standing problems, and the school district has continued to thumb its nose.”
The judge did grant students permission to make the sign of the cross, wear religious garb or kneel to face Mecca. But that’s not good enough for some students at the high school.


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suffer irreparable harm

Errr, right.
That sounds like a water-tight open and close case to me.

[Schroeder]

Being an atheist myself I find the whole thing pretty absurd. As long as I'm not forced to join in a religious ceremony I don't have any problem with people who are praying to their god(s) and don't see any reason to forbid them to do so.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Being an atheist myself I find the whole thing pretty absurd. As long as I'm not forced to join in a religious ceremony I don't have any problem with people who are praying to their god(s) and don't see any reason to forbid them to do so.

Yea good point.
What made me laugh out aloud was the "suffer irreparable harm" B.S.!
That is the icing on the cake.

[Schroeder]

I actually wonder what qualifies as "damage"?

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I actually wonder what qualifies as "damage"?

Maybe they thought that praying involves kneeling and that their knees would be damaged beyond repair.

[Platapus]

I thought this was overturned?

[nikimcbee]

Glad our courts have nothing better to do with their time.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Being an atheist myself I find the whole thing pretty absurd. As long as I'm not forced to join in a religious ceremony I don't have any problem with people who are praying to their god(s) and don't see any reason to forbid them to do so.

Originally Posted by Skybird

If it is a public school, the state has to make sure not to propagate or support any religion in the public space. It's called secularism, and is based on the 1st amendement:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; [...]

People' freedom ends where they practice it at the cost of the freedom of others, hence: keep away religion from state-run institutions and the communal public space. Leave it to the private sphere of the individuals.

That is where personal belief in the divine belong anyway. What is between you and your God, is your intimate business only for which nobody else must care. Where you claim the public sphere for your belief, you are supressing others, and turn from religion to politics.

Secularism must be embraced by states but NOT by individuals. Prohibiting people to pray in public is restricting their belief even banning them.

No one should be forced to pray as no one should be forced not to.

US and Europe are turning into atheist society and with that more and more atheists are filling governmental positions and high society structures. This, incident like this, is only following this trend.

The funny aspect about many of people who declared themselves atheist is that they are in all objectivity are not just an atheist but they are anti-religion whether specific one or all.

If the trend continues before long practicing and expressing religious belief will be banned from public events and places. The real motive to this is to hinder the propagation of religious beliefs and make the majority of population atheists or even better anti-religion.

The irony is that this anti religion atheists are only in all objectivity members of their own beliefs which is anti religion and anti God.

It's a sad thing especially for people like me who truly knows and not just believe that God exists and even had a glimpse/peek of Him.

My ordeal in Singapore whose rulers are atheists proved that they harbor a passion of hating anything genuinely religious. The irony is that they even engaged in spiritual warfare using spirit to break me and my faith. In other words they are fully aware of the power of spiritual worlds but gives no respect towards the idea of the Holy Creator. My life is a testimony to them which they seem to neglect or ignore. There's no point pointing out or even showing every single miracle if people have decided not to use their brain and conscience. The fools cannot be cured if they decided to stay as fools because there's no limit to man's foolishness, his lies and excuses and vanity and the comfort of their stupidity.

The catch is even religious establishment and religious people wouldn't help or stand with me and even blamed me!!! NO wonder there's no power in their worship. There's no knowledge in their spiritual life. There's nothing in them as their worship is just superficial. It's the kind of worship to make them feel better and nothing more than that. They pray their prayer and then think after that that God disconnects with them until the next time they pray again. It's worse than being an honest atheist, much worse. Because they admit with their mouth the power of God but deny Him with their actions.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Castout

Prohibiting people to pray in public is restricting their belief even banning them.

No one should be forced to pray as no one should be forced not to.

Then people should have the right to pray silently and without calling attention to it. That's a win win situation

The prayers get to pray, those who don't wanna don't have to hear/see it.

Unfortunately, that is not what many of these theists want. They want it to be a big public thing. They want things to stop so that everyone notices that they are praying (or pretending to).

A person who is secure in their faith can pray in a crowded room and no one will ever notice. Why does it have to be a public "hey pay attention to what I am doing" thing?

That's what I don't understand. Why does praying need to be a formal part of a ceremony?

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Then people should have the right to pray silently and without calling attention to it. That's a win win situation

The prayers get to pray, those who don't wanna don't have to hear/see it.

Unfortunately, that is not what many of these theists want. They want it to be a big public thing. They want things to stop so that everyone notices that they are praying (or pretending to).

A person who is secure in their faith can pray in a crowded room and no one will ever notice. Why does it have to be a public "hey pay attention to what I am doing" thing?

That's what I don't understand. Why does praying need to be a formal part of a ceremony?

Yea good point dood...

Matthew 6 5-6
“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. "

Good point Platapus

[Morts]

Originally Posted by Castout

It's a sad thing especially for people like me who truly knows and not just believe that God exists and even had a glimpse/peek of Him.

hahahaha, thats priceless
you have people of every religion that they truly know, and dont believe that god exists. and both sides have so called "irefutable" proof, and its just the same old BS over and over

[tater]

The second they pray out loud in a public school setting, there is a problem, IMHO.

Would they let a couple stoner HS students pray to satan over the loudspeakers, for example?

Better to keep it all out.

[Sailor Steve]

When I was a believer I still had a problem with the whole public prayer thing. As I saw it, it went against the Lord's own words.

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Castout

Secularism must be embraced by states but NOT by individuals. Prohibiting people to pray in public is restricting their belief even banning them.

If their religion demands them to make others either going away in order to not witnessing them practing their relgion or accept to be turned into witnesses of it, the relkgious have oversteppoed the line. I do not tolerate people in the pedestrain zone running around naked becasue they are nudists. I do not accept my neighboiur playing his radio so loud tzhat I need to listen to every single tune and word. But I must accept that the relgious seize the public space with their zeremocies and pratcice, raising anonymous pressure that way as well as a side effect?

BTW, the public schools are tax-run, they are thus under administration of the state, and the state has to make sure his institutions and organisaiton he run are secular.

No one should be forced to pray as no one should be forced not to.

If you pray so loud that I am forced to note it or even get negatively effected in my own way of living, prepare to get troubles with me. Your freedom ends where you demand freedoms that go at the cost of mine.

US and Europe are turning into atheist society and with that more and more atheists are filling governmental positions and high society structures. This, incident like this, is only following this trend.

Really? I know plenty of zealots and boigts in politics - Amercan, international, German.

The funny aspect about many of people who declared themselves atheist is that they are in all objectivity are not just an atheist but they are anti-religion whether specific one or all.

Which is logical since the three big religions Christianity, Judaism and Muhameddanism all are theist religions.

If the trend continues before long practicing and expressing religious belief will be banned from public events and places. The real motive to this is to hinder the propagation of religious beliefs and make the majority of population atheists or even better anti-religion.

By the American example the state indeed shall stey away from propgation of relgious claims and statements. And certain fields like for exaple jurisdiction, tax systemns, schools and unvirsities, public funding, indeed should be left uneffected by relgious demnds to tailor these in on behalf of said relgion's cliams and interests. That is part of secularism.

[quote]The irony is that this anti religion atheists are only in all objectivity members of their own beliefs which is anti religion and anti God.['/quote]
The usual anti-athist propaganda that refuses to see how self-contradictory this claim is. Fact is theists refuse to believe in what you define as yoiur understanding of theist Christianity, and that you - and many other believers - take queer. We refuse your believing. We claim the right not to be bothered in our way of life by your relgious practices. Some of us beoieve in non-theistic conceptions. thers do not care for mamiojg their minds up over what they believe or not.

Just to claim that religion automatically means theism, is wrong.

It's a sad thing especially for people like me who truly knows and not just believe that God exists and even had a glimpse/peek of Him.

Yes, you are truly enlightened. You have let us known often enough.

My ordeal in Singapore whose rulers are atheists proved that they harbor a passion of hating anything genuinely religious. The irony is that they even engaged in spiritual warfare using spirit ....

Okay, full stop here. I simpy don't care for the rest.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Castout

The funny aspect about many of people who declared themselves atheist is that they are in all objectivity are not just an atheist but they are anti-religion whether specific one or all.
.

Yes, in some way your right, I am anti-religion if it knocks on my door.
Keep your religion to yourself.
And then, I promise not to knock on your door to promote atheism.