American jihad: Facing up to homegrown militancy

[Skybird]

Before Vendor beats me on it on my very own grounds

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13068133

"His dad is Syrian, a Sunni Muslim, his mom's a Southern Baptist, from a little tiny town down here. His mom would take him to church and stuff like that," his schoolfriend, James Culveyhouse, explains.
...
Over the years Omar Hammami became an adherent of stricter and stricter Islam - turning far more orthodox than his father.
...
"It's not first generation immigrants," he says, "they are not going off (to fight)." Nor he says, is it the children of religious immigrants.
Instead he says, look to those who are brought up in secular or non-practising households. An identity crisis comes at some point.

America would be well advised to learn from the bad experiences we have in Europe with this (and not to repeat our mistakes!!!), the above summarised process is very, very typical the dominat subgroups amongst Muslim migrants in Western nations, in Germany for example the Turks, in England Pakistani. I am repeating ti since years that the second and third generation offsprings of Turks in Germany tend to be much more orthodox and truly Islamic, than their parents and grandparents of the first generation ever have been.

But as the debate over the mosque that tries to mock the victims at Ground Zero by trampling and dancing on their mass grave there has shown, American poltiicians are not safe fgrom repeating the same mistakes we have done in Eruope: to ignore the beasty features of Islam'S face, to to nice-talk it, to appease it, and believeing and also producing all those cosy words of lullabies that are designed to prevent the people opposing Islam as long as they still have the time and opportunity to do so.

The often claimed patterns and schemes of how socially Mulsim immigrants become radiclaised in the West due to their social low status and bad income, and that they are safe from becoming radicalised when they rise in social ranks, are simply wrong. They have been wrong in Europe (I mind you of the identities of the London bombers: many "well-integrated", unsuspiciuous offsprings from families of solidified social status), and they are wrong and do not work in America as well.

However, i also remind of that Islamic terrorism is one of the smallest of my concerns about Islam. To terror we can adapt, we can deal with it, counter it, even get used to, it does not mean much if we would not produce all those healdines all by ourselves. Thes slow change of geneal attitude towards this ideology, the inner ideologic explosive of Islam doctrine, the creeping ewrposion of free speech, free society, free thoguht, and our value and law traditions in attempts to appease Islam - this is by far the greater danger from Islam, than terrorism. Our attitude here is extremely unrational - we tend to get fixciated on the bright lights and loiud sound, and ignore the intention of the hidden partiture that they try to deceive us about. The danger lies not so much in Muslim bombers, but in Muslim indoctrination, and Islam's totalitarian, racist and gender-discriminating ideology. What is at stake is our freedom, and our ability to think rational and reasonable all by ourselves, without asking Islamic and PC censorship first wheter we may think and speak out that way indeed.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Skybird

America would be well advised to learn from the bad experiences we have in Europe with this (and not to repeat our mistakes!!!)

Yeah

THAT will happen.

America has been neutered. The whole damned place is so wrapped up in the "politically correct" nonsense that it will never happen.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Yeah

THAT will happen.

America has been neutered. The whole damned place is so wrapped up in the "politically correct" nonsense that it will never happen.

In the light of Obama's shameful Cairo speech and the debate about the Ground Zero mosque, I tend to share your scepticism. America'S oportunism in maintaining relations with Muslim regimes like the Saudis that are mongst the biggest financial supporters of Islamic terrorism in the world and that are one of the strongest ideological crusaders (or should one say "crescenders"?) on behalf of Islam's claim for world dominance, does not raise much argument for hope.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Yeah

THAT will happen.

America has been neutered. The whole damned place is so wrapped up in the "politically correct" nonsense that it will never happen.

I told ya'll PCness would be the death of us all. We can't call cancer: cancer anymore.

[gimpy117]

But it's not just jihad. There are extremists of all shape in form in the US. T only turn an eye to Islam is foolish.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

But it's not just jihad. There are extremists of all shape in form in the US. T only turn an eye to Islam is foolish.

sure, but lets say you have a yard... and your children play there.

what are you going to eradicate first?

the weeds or the fire ants?

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

sure, but lets say you have a yard... and your children play there.

what are you going to eradicate first?

the weeds or the fire ants?

well what if those weeds happen to be poison ivy as well?

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

well what if those weeds happen to be poison ivy as well?

[Growler]

I never thought I'd miss the bad old days of Reagan posturing against the Soviets. At least then, I knew which way to face when the bomb(s) flashed off over Philadelphia.

Depressing, when I think about it - I'd pick the potential of nuclear immolation over the increasing emasculation of the country as a whole.

In fact, that's my new slogan.

"Better nuked than neutered."

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Growler

I never thought I'd miss the bad old days of Reagan posturing against the Soviets. At least then, I knew which way to face when the bomb(s) flashed off over Philadelphia.

Depressing, when I think about it - I'd pick the potential of nuclear immolation over the increasing emasculation of the country as a whole.

In fact, that's my new slogan.

"Better nuked than neutered."

amen


Gimpy has a point too... this is the 16th anniversary of the Oklahoma City Bombing after all.

[Armistead]

Islam wants to convert us all.

Home grown terrorist have a different mindset, they hate government so much they go off and attack.

Our government should be thankful that the majority of us still think we can bring about change through the voting booth...

Originally Posted by Armistead

Islam wants to convert us all.

So does Christianity.

So does Atheism

Come to think about it what group doesn't want to force everyone to think their way?

[tater]

Islam shares many things that are wrong with other, idiotic sets of ideas. It contains both religious idiocy bent on "conversion," as well as political idiocy.

Political extremism managed to kill many people in OK City, but that is pretty much the entire body count for that sort of extremism in the US. In addition, it has virtually zero traction among americans at large (a small number agree, but that number is vanishingly small). Religious violence in the US? What's the biggest issue? Attacking abortion providers? The total body count is ~20 killed and wounded (combined) in as many years (or more). Effectively a non-issue. While many agree with the anti-abortion stance, all the major organizations specifically state that violence is not appropriate. On top of that, the violence is not random, but aimed at people that the nuts think of as murdering children. If I saw someone murdering a real kid in front of me, and drop him where he stood without a second thought (if I was carrying, otherwise I'd just try and beat him to death).

Islam, OTOH, has massive, double-digit support for terrorism. Violence not even aimed at people they believe are attacking Islam (and attacking an idea is grossly less compelling as a motive than attacking people you believe are actually murdering innocents). Do most muslims agree? Let's assume not. Still, the number that do is huge, which is completely unlike the other domestic terror possibilities.

Take the latest blasphemy claimed—lady gaga. The songs been out a bit, and there are over 1 billion Catholics. There are 1.66 B Muslims, and the Koran burning resulted in 12 deaths, right? That gives us a great study to look at. If Catholics are as violent and hateful as Muslims, we should expect 7.22 murders to result from this blasphemy—or more properly from a Bible burning.

Here's a bible burning on youtube from a few years ago:

Have 7+ people been murdered because of that? 6? 5?

Hmm, turns out ZERO have been murdered.

Tells us something about Islam at large vs other faiths.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rilder

So does Christianity.

Nice try.

Jesus did not preach for the enforced converting of infidels. He did not demand the assassination of apostates. He did not claim right of possession over people just becaseu they got born to his followers. He did not threaten slavery and war to those resisting.

"Muhammad says: submit. Jesus says: decide." (KoH)

And no, I am no Christian or Buddhist. I'm a spiritual atheist.

So does Atheism

No. Atheists wish to be left alone and claim the right to not need to worry for religious people's practicing, nor that they need to witness it in public space at every opportunity. Atheists deny that religius people have the right to excpand into the public space at the cost of those not wanting to witness their relgion nor participating in it.

Atheists do not want you to listen to their music. But they demand that you play your religion-music so low only so that they must not need to listen to your tune when they live their own life. You are too loud? It is your responsibility then to become more silent then. Tune down that damn radio, isolate your studio, or use headphones. You are the orign of the noise, it is you needing to make sure it goes away again.

Atheists also insist on a separation of church and state, religion and politics, intimate spiritual doing and communal public space, religious demands and general laws. That'S why maybe they do not want religions' lobbies' agendas being turned into parts of the curriculum at public schools.

Keep thy religion to thyself. That'S where it belongs. That'S what it is about. Where it leaves the intimate privacy of your personal life, it is no longer spiritual you be, but you want political power. Spiritual you are wehre you listen into yourself. A crusader and missioniser you become where you think you must make the others thinking like you do, and must tialor the public sphere to adapt to your relgiuous rules and dogmas.

And that is where atheist opposition to your mission is nothing else but self-defence.

Nice try.

Says the man that didn't even see what was written
So as he didn't even address what was written lets just look at his "response"

Jesus did not preach for the enforced converting of infidels. He did not demand the assassination of apostates. He did not claim right of possession over people just becaseu they got born to his followers. He did not threaten slavery and war to those resisting.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear, Subsims self declared "expert" has managed to not only fail to address any point that was raised he has managed to write a list of things which are untrue
Skybird lies again, what a shocker eh.
That poor expert must read some more, and possibly avoid some of those Canadian "religious" terrorists he cites as academic sources