Rebels want no fly zone but refuse western ground forces.

Freiwillige · 03-08-11, 02:26 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110307/...re_af/af_libya

I say stuff em. Don't bite the hand that helps you. They don't want democracy and mark my words they aren't going to end up with one.

I mean its okay, Its their country, their civil war and they can become what ever they wish but with that attitude the west should just say Good luck! And go about our business.

Castout · 03-08-11, 04:23 AM

You should be happy that they didn't ask for ground troops

They WANT democracy and if they hated the West so much they would not ask for help from the West.

There's two kind of people in evolution. Ones who made it happen and ones who enjoy it afterward.

A lot of times these two groups don't mean the same people unfortunately. Even if you disagree with them you must respect their courage for standing up against a brutal regime as Gaddafi's.

I really wish that Tunisia, Egypt and soon Libya will really become a free nation and have a real democracy. The people clearly deserve it. Let's hope they don't get betrayed by corrupt bureaucrats or politicians. The temptation is great when you hold power. It takes humility and strength of character to resist it. Power should be meant as a tool to serve fellow man instead as a tool of oppression and selfish pursuits.

Being a leader is not a privilege to do as the person wishes but the privilege to try to bring betterment to his brothers and sisters and to give protection to the needy and weak. It's not a privilege to kill or to steal or to force anyone contrary to his harmless personal beliefs and natural requirements. If it is not so then what's the difference between civil leaders to the alpha male of a baboon pack who insists on being fed and served first which otherwise would become violent. Surely evolution has made humanity better than a pack of baboon or is that just make up that we're seeing?!

Freiwillige · 03-08-11, 05:35 AM

While I agree with you 100% I am skeptical that it is just more of the king is dead long live the king! A regime change to a new authortarian ruler.

And if they hated the west why would they ask for our help you ask, Tell me do you see anybody else offering? The enemy of my enemy is my friend, that is until my enemy is dead in which case friend you are now my enemy! Happens all the time.

I don't think that the west should invest one drop a fuel unless we can invest in the outcome. Maybe its just me but refusing western boots on the ground just sends a message that they aren't interested in what we are selling.

I pray I am wrong but I would bet I am right. Democracy will not rise In Libya.

Castout · 03-08-11, 07:23 AM

Libya is NOT and no longer the enemy of the West so the enemy of your enemy is your friend can't apply here.

There's a word that you still not understand and that's HOPE!

It means holding onto positive expectation despite even the contrary or non existence of positive reasoning to be factored in.

Or do you prefer them to ask the Russian or the Chinese for help. If that's so you're probably working for China or Russia.
Can't you see the BIG advantage to the fact that they are asking the West?!

To me it sounds that you just fear change and prefer status quo. Israel are not comfortable with this too. They are worried by these evolutions.

The mantra of life is change. It's the essence of living and it is the essence of time without which neither could exist. Only God who never changes.

There's nothing you could do to prevent these uprisings. There's nothing. There's nothing I can do either but at least I know how to read the signs of times. It's time. It's God's will if you'd like to be blunt. It's unstoppable. The intentions are good, people are hopeful. I am hopeful. I'm unafraid. I welcome these changes even rejoice for them.

If it turned out for the worse then it's still God's will. It it turned out for the better I'm a happier person for them. I'd like to take the risk of uncertainty in change than these people still suffering under oppression knowing fully what it's like.

You really reap what you plant. And now it's reaping time in the Arab world. I'm hopeful the harvest will be good. Now whoever that planted all these are the foolhardy. Nature now has befallen them. Nature is just and unstoppable and God approves of it. Just signs of time.

Yet if you mishandle these, nature will take over too in time. When there's injustice there's cry for justice to be upheld, when there's evil good will rise to challenge it, when there's oppression there's dissent, when there's brutality there's revenge, when there's kindness there's friends. Mediocre evil gives rise to mediocre good while extraordinary evil gives rise to extraordinary good. Just nature. Yin and Yang. The scale, the balance of life, the cycle of living.

Jimbuna · 03-08-11, 01:03 PM

They are asking for the no fly zone because that is what they fear most....I never realised beggars could be choosers.

I think it best if we keep out of the troubles and let them get on with sorting their country out.

I doubt Britain has the assetts to do either ground or air operations right now.

Armistead · 03-08-11, 01:20 PM

We need to stay out of this one unless it's the UN leads the way. Overall, I'm against it, but we need to calm the oil markets since we have no energy policy. They say gas could go over $5 a gallon by summer.

03-08-11, 01:38 PM

Quote:

I never realised beggars could be choosers.

There are not many beggars which can offer a nice juicy future oil contract.

Jimbuna · 03-08-11, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

We need to stay out of this one unless it's the UN leads the way. Overall, I'm against it, but we need to calm the oil markets since we have no energy policy. They say gas could go over $5 a gallon by summer.

Us Brits would probably settle for twice that amount in another couple of months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

There are not many beggars which can offer a nice juicy future oil contract.

Aye true that.

Castout · 03-08-11, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

There are not many beggars which can offer a nice juicy future oil contract.

They are 'beggars' because Gaddafi mishandle of the country. Libya is relatively sparse in population and has enough oil to make all of them well off.

When Tony Blair visited Libya and met Gaddafi who do you think the beggar was?! Well unless Tony Blair came to give alms to Gaddafi but Gaddafi is richer than Tony Blair or even the Bush family. LOL.

Oberon · 03-08-11, 08:52 PM

One does wonder how much that contract would be adhered to when Gadaffi is gone.

In this kind of situation it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Castout · 03-08-11, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

One does wonder how much that contract would be adhered to when Gadaffi is gone.

In this kind of situation it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't.

If I were the new govt none! All contract should be reviewed and put on tender again. Headache!!!! "OMG We already paid Gaddafi for the rights to rob the oil!"

TLAM Strike · 03-08-11, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

If I were the new govt none! All contract should be reviewed and put on tender again. Headache!!!! "OMG We already paid Gaddafi for the rights to rob the oil!"

Somehow I don't think renegotiating contracts will be a problem...

Castout · 03-08-11, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Somehow I don't think renegotiating contracts will be a problem...

It is for some other countries

TLAM Strike · 03-08-11, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

It is for some other countries

F**K those other countries we are the most western white people geographically, the oil is ours!

TorpX · 03-08-11, 10:10 PM

For their own sake, I hope the rebels are not counting on the UN to save them. If they depend on the UN they're finished. If Obama and Europe plan to do something, they need to get to it. If they wait very long, it will become moot.

03-08-11, 02:26 AM	#1
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Rebels want no fly zone but refuse western ground forces. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110307/...re_af/af_libya I say stuff em. Don't bite the hand that helps you. They don't want democracy and mark my words they aren't going to end up with one. I mean its okay, Its their country, their civil war and they can become what ever they wish but with that attitude the west should just say Good luck! And go about our business.

03-08-11, 04:23 AM	#2
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	You should be happy that they didn't ask for ground troops They WANT democracy and if they hated the West so much they would not ask for help from the West. There's two kind of people in evolution. Ones who made it happen and ones who enjoy it afterward. A lot of times these two groups don't mean the same people unfortunately. Even if you disagree with them you must respect their courage for standing up against a brutal regime as Gaddafi's. I really wish that Tunisia, Egypt and soon Libya will really become a free nation and have a real democracy. The people clearly deserve it. Let's hope they don't get betrayed by corrupt bureaucrats or politicians. The temptation is great when you hold power. It takes humility and strength of character to resist it. Power should be meant as a tool to serve fellow man instead as a tool of oppression and selfish pursuits. Being a leader is not a privilege to do as the person wishes but the privilege to try to bring betterment to his brothers and sisters and to give protection to the needy and weak. It's not a privilege to kill or to steal or to force anyone contrary to his harmless personal beliefs and natural requirements. If it is not so then what's the difference between civil leaders to the alpha male of a baboon pack who insists on being fed and served first which otherwise would become violent. Surely evolution has made humanity better than a pack of baboon or is that just make up that we're seeing?! __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/ Last edited by Castout; 03-08-11 at 04:36 AM.

03-08-11, 07:23 AM	#4
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	Libya is NOT and no longer the enemy of the West so the enemy of your enemy is your friend can't apply here. There's a word that you still not understand and that's HOPE! It means holding onto positive expectation despite even the contrary or non existence of positive reasoning to be factored in. Or do you prefer them to ask the Russian or the Chinese for help. If that's so you're probably working for China or Russia. Can't you see the BIG advantage to the fact that they are asking the West?! To me it sounds that you just fear change and prefer status quo. Israel are not comfortable with this too. They are worried by these evolutions. The mantra of life is change. It's the essence of living and it is the essence of time without which neither could exist. Only God who never changes. There's nothing you could do to prevent these uprisings. There's nothing. There's nothing I can do either but at least I know how to read the signs of times. It's time. It's God's will if you'd like to be blunt. It's unstoppable. The intentions are good, people are hopeful. I am hopeful. I'm unafraid. I welcome these changes even rejoice for them. If it turned out for the worse then it's still God's will. It it turned out for the better I'm a happier person for them. I'd like to take the risk of uncertainty in change than these people still suffering under oppression knowing fully what it's like. You really reap what you plant. And now it's reaping time in the Arab world. I'm hopeful the harvest will be good. Now whoever that planted all these are the foolhardy. Nature now has befallen them. Nature is just and unstoppable and God approves of it. Just signs of time. Yet if you mishandle these, nature will take over too in time. When there's injustice there's cry for justice to be upheld, when there's evil good will rise to challenge it, when there's oppression there's dissent, when there's brutality there's revenge, when there's kindness there's friends. Mediocre evil gives rise to mediocre good while extraordinary evil gives rise to extraordinary good. Just nature. Yin and Yang. The scale, the balance of life, the cycle of living. __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

03-08-11, 01:03 PM	#5
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,484 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	They are asking for the no fly zone because that is what they fear most....I never realised beggars could be choosers. I think it best if we keep out of the troubles and let them get on with sorting their country out. I doubt Britain has the assetts to do either ground or air operations right now. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-08-11, 05:35 AM	#3
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	While I agree with you 100% I am skeptical that it is just more of the king is dead long live the king! A regime change to a new authortarian ruler. And if they hated the west why would they ask for our help you ask, Tell me do you see anybody else offering? The enemy of my enemy is my friend, that is until my enemy is dead in which case friend you are now my enemy! Happens all the time. I don't think that the west should invest one drop a fuel unless we can invest in the outcome. Maybe its just me but refusing western boots on the ground just sends a message that they aren't interested in what we are selling. I pray I am wrong but I would bet I am right. Democracy will not rise In Libya.

03-08-11, 01:20 PM	#6
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	We need to stay out of this one unless it's the UN leads the way. Overall, I'm against it, but we need to calm the oil markets since we have no energy policy. They say gas could go over $5 a gallon by summer.

03-08-11, 08:52 PM	#10
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	One does wonder how much that contract would be adhered to when Gadaffi is gone. In this kind of situation it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't.

03-08-11, 10:10 PM	#15
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	For their own sake, I hope the rebels are not counting on the UN to save them. If they depend on the UN they're finished. If Obama and Europe plan to do something, they need to get to it. If they wait very long, it will become moot.