About the reptilian threads

[Takeda Shingen]

Hi all,

No, I have not gone crazy, or at least crazier than I already am. Neal and Neon, feel free to delete them, brig me, yell at me or remove my 'best of' badge or my moderator status if you feel it necessary; I won't get angry and storm off, leaving SubSim forever in a huff, nor will I say anything nasty about either of you. Any of those consequences would be well-deserved, and I did what I did knowing well that they would be the likely result. I know that this was topic spamming, and that is very wrong. My little act of civil disobedience was simply to illustrate the fallacy of the claim that 'different aspects' of the same topic are not the same topic. It is still topic spam, and if 4 threads were that annoying, please imagine the frustration that many, myself included, feel over 187 threads about the same issue. If it allows for members to stop and think before doing this sort of thing, then it would make GT a much nicer place to be, and would be well worth any consequences that I am likely about to suffer.

[Hottentot]

Well heck . I was wondering if I could get the local Finns in here to start conspiring by starting gazillions of threads about our coming elections (the world revolves around us after all), but I guess this spares me from getting laughed at, brigged and banned. And does it in a more classy way too.

Hail the reptilian overlords.
I live near NASA and I shot a gun in 1984 , soory i am sober now tooo to and clerly saw someone on fox the other dasyz
INSANEEEEEEEEEEE
penguins with telescopes
watch gunny take on the obamathob......http://www.youtube.com/user/gorilla1...30/Spvg0-i--k4

[Freiwillige]

While I agree that it becomes a bit much with the Obama threads, you have to understand that he is the most divisive president I have ever know and as he charges in uncharted directions people are gonna respond both for or against.

These topics while many are spamming repeats (Agreed), many are just as valid as they discuss new policy's, Power struggles and the future of this great nation. Now I am honestly not sure of the point you were trying to make, I mean in the forum world I know you well enough to know your a level headed guy and quite likable and I am sure you were just trying to make a point. I just hope that point is not to stifle any legitimate discussion about our prez and his policy's.

Although knowing you I don't think that is the case. I just feel like I missed something....Typical me confused as normal.

Anyway I like the job you do and I like that you seem to stay fair and balanced most of the time<---You are human after all

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

While I agree that it becomes a bit much with the Obama threads, you have to understand that he is the most divisive president I have ever know and as he charges in uncharted directions people are gonna respond both for or against.

These topics while many are spamming repeats (Agreed), many are just as valid as they discuss new policy's, Power struggles and the future of this great nation. Now I am honestly not sure of the point you were trying to make, I mean in the forum world I know you well enough to know your a level headed guy and quite likable and I am sure you were just trying to make a point. I just hope that point is not to stifle any legitimate discussion about our prez and his policy's.

Although knowing you I don't think that is the case. I just feel like I missed something....Typical me confused as normal.

Anyway I like the job you do and I like that you seem to stay fair and balanced most of the time<---You are human after all

No, I don't want to stifle anyone's expression. I agree that Obama is divisive, and so was Bush 43. My approach to them would be the same; create a master Obama thread for all of the discussion. Hell, even sticky it. This way, the people that want to talk politics get what they want, and the people that don't want to wade through all of those individual threads get what they want. I know that this may not be organized enough to make some happy, but let us face it; political discourse is less Napoleonic warfare and more bar room brawl. Neal or Neon can make the thread easily, but what is needed is the members to go along with it. There were a bunch of threads where this came up recently, so I decided to illustrate it in this manner.

In terms of Neal, if I were him and one of my moderators had done this, I'd yank that 'best of' badge off his profile, revoke his moderator status and brig him for 10 days. I'd deserve that, I wouldn't say anything nasty about him for doing it, and I hope that no one else would either. Fair is fair. I just thought that this was an important point and issue for the community, and sometimes personal status is outweighed by the greater good of all.

[Skybird]

It is GT like it has been for ten years I "live " in here now. And I remember far worse times from back then - have people forgotten the wars that raged in this forum 2003, 2004, 2005...? Compared to back then, things are tame and civil now.

You are very much okay a moderator, Tak. Stop whipping yourself - nobody of us believes it anyway!

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Hi all,
My little act of civil disobedience was simply to illustrate the fallacy of the claim that 'different aspects' of the same topic are not the same topic. It is still topic spam, and if 4 threads were that annoying, please imagine the frustration that many, myself included, feel over 187 threads about the same issue.

Indeed, however 2 points:
1) Is it really necessary to start a thread pointing this out? That there are 187 threads involving Obama? I posted in there and to ask what the point of it was? Was it to invite 'bashing' of yubba? I'm sure it wasn't the aim to do so, however, we all realise that some will jump on the wagon and take an opportunity when it presents itself.

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

you have to understand that he is the most divisive president I have ever know and as he charges in uncharted directions people are gonna respond both for or against.

Exactly, it's going to happen.

many are just as valid as they discuss new policy's, Power struggles and the future of this great nation. Now I am honestly not sure of the point you were trying to make, I mean in the forum world I know you well enough to know your a level headed guy and quite likable and I am sure you were just trying to make a point. I just hope that point is not to stifle any legitimate discussion about our prez and his policy's.

Or indeed about any other political figures.

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

No, I don't want to stifle anyone's expression. I agree that Obama is divisive, and so was Bush 43. My approach to them would be the same; create a master Obama thread for all of the discussion. Hell, even sticky it.

Good point, you have my support for that. While we are on the subject of stickys, what about the "Tribute" thread? When members post about the deceased, or a loved one for instance? There are RIP posts which could be combined into one thread. I'm not attempting to hijack the topic here, just because we are talking about stickys and combining multiple threads about similar issues into one.

This way, the people that want to talk politics get what they want, and the people that don't want to wade through all of those individual threads get what they want.

Again, you have my support.

I know that this may not be organized enough to make some happy, but let us face it; political discourse is less Napoleonic warfare and more bar room brawl. Neal or Neon can make the thread easily, but what is needed is the members to go along with it.

Seems pretty organised to me at least, once again, count me in!

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

My approach to them would be the same; create a master Obama thread for all of the discussion. Hell, even sticky it. This way, the people that want to talk politics get what they want, and the people that don't want to wade through all of those individual threads get what they want. I know that this may not be organized enough to make some happy, but let us face it; political discourse is less Napoleonic warfare and more bar room brawl.

I would support this. I keep pushing for a separate political subforum. It is getting a bit much. I could understand if the individual threads were actual deep thinking discussions, but rarely are they. Some are simply cut and past from news services (as if we don't have the ability to read the news ourselves) and others are simply rehashing what has already been discussed on other threads.

Your idea of a Obama sticky, while a good idea, won't work because it removes the ego satisfaction of some of the posters. They don't want their opinions "buried" in some discussion form with everyone elses opinion, they want their opinions in their own thread, with their name, on the front page. To some, this is important.

This is one of the reasons I think a separate forum for political discussion would work then everyone who wants to participate by flooding new threads can do so, while the other members can still enjoy the GT forum. A win win solution in my opinion.

Politics is a very emotional topic. There is a reason why in polite conversation one never brings up politics nor religion - Many people can not discuss either without getting emotional. Let's face it, most people consider their opinion to be the "right" opinion and really can't/won't understand that others may have a different opinion.

We have, in my opinion (which is the right opinion of course! ) four options.

1. Forbid any political discussion on SubSim. Not a good solution. It would be one where the cure is worse than the disease.

2. Have an Obama Sticky (your idea). The discussions about Obama are too varied for one sticky. This site would have to have a number of Obama Stickies addressing the full spectrum of Obama topics from one extreme (I hate Obama because he is Black) to the other extreme (I love everything Obama touches) and everything in the middle. It would be a nightmare for the moderators to handle.

3. Have a separate political sub-forum. This the solution I would prefer. In this new forum, everyone could continue to do what they currently do, spamming Obama topics as they wish. Little extra work for the moderators. Any one entering the political sub-forum knows exactly what they are getting into. People who wish to post on matters political have the opportunity. People who have no interest in reading these type of posts won't have their "GT experience" affected.

4. Do nothing. The easiest solution. Most of us here are big boys and girls and we have the ability to not open up a thread. I am a big political interest guy. My interests are professional and academic. I love discussing politics! But honestly, I read the first 2-3 posts in a political thread and I can decide whether it is worth following. Most of the political threads I don't open. Sure it is annoying to see the thread titles listing yet another "I hate Obama" topic, but I am a big boy and I can simply read the threads I like and then select from the quick links "Mark forums read" to gray out the threads I did not want to read.

Censorship on the Internet Tubes is a complicated and emotional topic in itself. In a perfect world, the members of this site would decide for themselves to self manage the thread topics. But this is not a perfect world. People will post here with an agenda, with their personal biases, and even with their emotions. Remember sites like this are probably the only place they can spout off their opinions. That is one of the unintended consequences of the Internet Tubes - Every one now has an ability to post opinions. And many people really like that.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

My approach to them would be the same; create a master Obama thread for all of the discussion. Hell, even sticky it. This way, the people that want to talk politics get what they want, and the people that don't want to wade through all of those individual threads get what they want.

It seems to me that would be a bit like creating a shared highway for planes, cars, boats, trains, and bicycles, just to save space and make it easier for someone to get somewhere without getting lost. I understand why you suggest this, but starting a new thread kind of keeps focus, and keeps most of the discussion on that topic in that thread, instead of mixing around in other threads. IMO if you pack more than 2-3 topics into one threadi it's going to get sticky at some point, and if someone starts a new line every time Obama does something, you're going to end up with threads looking like these charts:

(except for the 12 Angry Men one and a lot like the Primer one)

IMO a sub-forum would be better organized than a superthread. Just my 2 cents.

[Penguin]

Wow, first I thought Tak took the wrong pills or someone hacked into his account - or the motherships landed in PA

I would also like to see a seperate politics forum. My argument is that it would certainly bring more people back to GT who don't like to post here (anymore) or are po'd by politics spam. I also hope that maybe more sub-related or historical discussions would take place here. I know there are many in the many sub-forums, but I think it's a pita to read through all of them, especially of games (like SH5) which I don't play. And honestly a discussion about the different type VII's could be in any forum, that's why I would like to see it bundled somewhere - maybe even in a historical/military (sub) forum - in my perception the Sub & Naval Discussions is more about sources not so much about (military) history.

V-related: Does anybody still watch the new series? I do, though I think it's quite shallow biut I like the theme...

Originally Posted by Hottentot

Well heck . I was wondering if I could get the local Finns in here to start conspiring by starting gazillions of threads about our coming elections (the world revolves around us after all), but I guess this spares me from getting laughed at, brigged and banned. And does it in a more classy way too.

Actually I would read one thread about this. It is always interesting to get some insight to other nation's politics. Though we just live across the Baltic, we don't get to know much about your politics - I think the Americans get even less news.
I learned more about the current US healthcare discussion here than anywhere else, or another great insight was the poster from Egypt who gave some interesting perspectives into his country at the time of the unrests.
So Hottentot, I would like to encourage you - as any poster from other countries - to open a thread about your countries politics if you feel like this. Though us damned foreigners can't bring anything into the discussion, it could be an interesting read.

[Skybird]

BTW, the only reptile I know is the one sitting at my end of the wire.

you have to understand that he is the most divisive president I have ever know and as he charges in uncharted directions people are gonna respond both for or against.

The same is said after each election about each president.

Compared to back then, things are tame and civil now.

I have to agree with Sky there, this was a very ugly place when the middle eastern fiasco was kicking off.

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Hi all,

No, I have not gone crazy, or at least crazier than I already am. Neal and Neon, feel free to delete them, brig me, yell at me or remove my 'best of' badge or my moderator status if you feel it necessary; I won't get angry and storm off, leaving SubSim forever in a huff, nor will I say anything nasty about either of you. Any of those consequences would be well-deserved, and I did what I did knowing well that they would be the likely result. I know that this was topic spamming, and that is very wrong. My little act of civil disobedience was simply to illustrate the fallacy of the claim that 'different aspects' of the same topic are not the same topic. It is still topic spam, and if 4 threads were that annoying, please imagine the frustration that many, myself included, feel over 187 threads about the same issue. If it allows for members to stop and think before doing this sort of thing, then it would make GT a much nicer place to be, and would be well worth any consequences that I am likely about to suffer.

I did not know that Obama was an issue. So far I thought the issues here where his different policies, politics and dreams he had for the country.

And comparing 4 threads posted within a short time with ~187 threads over.. what? 2 years or almost 3 years is rather mood, imho. Thats less than a new thread a day on average and nobody puts a gun to anyones head to post in them to keep these on the first page.

You can always tell Vendor to stop playing a news caster (just kidding), that will reduce the number of Obama threads on the first page drasticaly.

I understand where you are coming from, and what you intend to show. However, when it comes to politics humans rarely (no matter which politcial sprectrum they are part of) are rational (no offense to anyone), and it is not going to change.

Just speaking for myself here: Yes, I do get annoyed sometimes too about all the Obama threads, all the Bush threads, all threads about how much the new patch sucks, how ****ty this (no particular) mod is, or how crappy the SH V / Ubi DRM is, but I decide if I want to read or even post in it. If I don't like it, I'll just ignore the threads.. No sweat, no lost sleep.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Hi all,

No, I have not gone crazy, or at least crazier than I already am. Neal and Neon, feel free to delete them, brig me, yell at me or remove my 'best of' badge or my moderator status if you feel it necessary; I won't get angry and storm off, leaving SubSim forever in a huff, nor will I say anything nasty about either of you. Any of those consequences would be well-deserved, and I did what I did knowing well that they would be the likely result. I know that this was topic spamming, and that is very wrong. My little act of civil disobedience was simply to illustrate the fallacy of the claim that 'different aspects' of the same topic are not the same topic. It is still topic spam, and if 4 threads were that annoying, please imagine the frustration that many, myself included, feel over 187 threads about the same issue. If it allows for members to stop and think before doing this sort of thing, then it would make GT a much nicer place to be, and would be well worth any consequences that I am likely about to suffer.

I say we found our new FFL football commish.... for the next 10 years.

[gimpy117]

hey I'm with you takeda.

funny articles are much better than "obama this" "obama that"