HMS Graph

GoldenRivet · 01-14-11, 02:38 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Graph_%28P715%29

Very Interesting stuff there

Sailor Steve · 01-14-11, 12:17 PM

I usually defend Wiki, and that article is fine. But, like all single-coverage books or pages, it is by nature lacking information that is available:
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570.htm

There you'll find the complete British and American reports on the detailed examination of the boat. Much of the information used for various SH mods comes from this site.

Catfish · 01-14-11, 12:41 PM

Well this was what additionally helped Bletchley Park after the U-110 (Enigma and papers) to construct the "bomb", but also brought the escort crews to set their charges for deeper depths after realizing how deep the boats could really get .. bad for the U-boats.
Anyway it is an atrocity to make a film, call it "U-571" and introduce US sailors to having captured the boat

Also interesting, on a british site you can read that "HMS Graph" was a Walther boat .. is it still all propaganda ?

I know England tested a Perhydrol boat with astonishing results, but only after the war and with a german crew to run it.
In reality this must have been the U-1407, or renamed to "HMS Meteorite".

Greetings,
Catfish

TLAM Strike · 01-14-11, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

I know England tested a Perhydrol boat with astonishing results, but only after the war and with a german crew to run it.

The Brits also built a two ship class of their own design (Explorer class), and the Russians built a a test bed sub (Whale class) and a large class of LOX powered coastal subs (Quebec). The US planned to fit the last Tang class boat with a HTP or LOX engine but it was canceled.

Oberon · 01-14-11, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

The Brits also built a two ship class of their own design (Explorer class), and the Russians built a a test bed sub (Whale class) and a large class of LOX powered coastal subs (Quebec). The US planned to fit the last Tang class boat with a HTP or LOX engine but it was canceled.

You mean 'Exploder' class? HMS Exploder and HMS Excruciator.

TarJak · 01-14-11, 03:35 PM

It would have made a far better movie thatn U-571.

CCIP · 01-14-11, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

It would have made a far better movie thatn U-571.

That's what I keep saying more generally - I still don't understand why there are so many fictional WWII-themed movies that try to present something new and "unexpected" storyline, yet when one bothers to look at actual history, there are many far stranger and more interesting stories that actually happened.

Fiction's got nothing on real life - it's always stranger and more interesting when you dig deep enough

Sailor Steve · 01-14-11, 07:07 PM

It's like conspiracy theories. The people who believe in them will do anything to convince you, but if you show them a real conspiracy that was discovered, exposed and the perpetrators punished, they quickly lose interest.

Everybody wants a "good" story; no one wants the truth.

TarJak · 01-15-11, 04:11 PM

But sometimes the truth is a far better story than the fiction.

August · 01-15-11, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Anyway it is an atrocity to make a film, call it "U-571" and introduce US sailors to having captured the boat

The guys that captured the U-505 might disagree about the use of the word "atrocity".

Catfish · 01-16-11, 06:20 AM

Hello August,
- hehe, touché

But then in 1944 the struggle for decryption information was already decided, from Dolphin and Shark, to Ultra.

Even the initial english boarding crews were more interested in getting the keycode papers, than the Enigma machines itself. Towards the end of the war the "bombes" in Bletchley Park decyphered any Triton message within 24 hours - at least that is what propaganda tells us today

Greetings,
Catfish

Oberon · 01-16-11, 08:37 AM

In the encryption battle we would have been completely lost without the Polish. They were well ahead of us in cracking the code, and thankfully they shared what they'd learnt on the eve of the Second World War.

Gordon Welchman:
"Hut 6 Ultra would never have gotten off the ground if we had not learned from the Poles, in the nick of time, the details both of the German military version of the commercial Enigma machine, and of the operating procedures that were in use."

Peter Calvocoressi:
"The one moot point is - how valuable? According to the best qualified judges it accelerated the breaking of Enigma by perhaps a year. The British did not adopt Polish techniques but they were enlightened by them."

The Polish Cryptologists are often overlooked but they were an absolutely vital part of the Enigma story, and they had a harder time of it than Bletchley Park, at one point hiding out in France and French Algeria and decoding on the quiet.

Catfish · 01-16-11, 01:16 PM

Hello,
well written :
http://cryptocellar.web.cern.ch/cryp...MTR-2066-2.pdf

01-14-11, 02:38 AM	#1
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	HMS Graph http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Graph_%28P715%29 Very Interesting stuff there __________________

01-14-11, 12:17 PM	#2
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I usually defend Wiki, and that article is fine. But, like all single-coverage books or pages, it is by nature lacking information that is available: http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570.htm There you'll find the complete British and American reports on the detailed examination of the boat. Much of the information used for various SH mods comes from this site. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

01-14-11, 07:07 PM	#8
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	It's like conspiracy theories. The people who believe in them will do anything to convince you, but if you show them a real conspiracy that was discovered, exposed and the perpetrators punished, they quickly lose interest. Everybody wants a "good" story; no one wants the truth. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

01-16-11, 06:20 AM	#11
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello August, - hehe, touché But then in 1944 the struggle for decryption information was already decided, from Dolphin and Shark, to Ultra. Even the initial english boarding crews were more interested in getting the keycode papers, than the Enigma machines itself. Towards the end of the war the "bombes" in Bletchley Park decyphered any Triton message within 24 hours - at least that is what propaganda tells us today Greetings, Catfish Last edited by Catfish; 01-16-11 at 12:46 PM.

01-14-11, 12:41 PM	#3
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Well this was what additionally helped Bletchley Park after the U-110 (Enigma and papers) to construct the "bomb", but also brought the escort crews to set their charges for deeper depths after realizing how deep the boats could really get .. bad for the U-boats. Anyway it is an atrocity to make a film, call it "U-571" and introduce US sailors to having captured the boat Also interesting, on a british site you can read that "HMS Graph" was a Walther boat .. is it still all propaganda ? I know England tested a Perhydrol boat with astonishing results, but only after the war and with a german crew to run it. In reality this must have been the U-1407, or renamed to "HMS Meteorite". Greetings, Catfish

01-14-11, 03:35 PM	#6
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	It would have made a far better movie thatn U-571.

01-15-11, 04:11 PM	#9
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	But sometimes the truth is a far better story than the fiction.

01-16-11, 08:37 AM	#12
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	In the encryption battle we would have been completely lost without the Polish. They were well ahead of us in cracking the code, and thankfully they shared what they'd learnt on the eve of the Second World War. Gordon Welchman: "Hut 6 Ultra would never have gotten off the ground if we had not learned from the Poles, in the nick of time, the details both of the German military version of the commercial Enigma machine, and of the operating procedures that were in use." Peter Calvocoressi: "The one moot point is - how valuable? According to the best qualified judges it accelerated the breaking of Enigma by perhaps a year. The British did not adopt Polish techniques but they were enlightened by them." The Polish Cryptologists are often overlooked but they were an absolutely vital part of the Enigma story, and they had a harder time of it than Bletchley Park, at one point hiding out in France and French Algeria and decoding on the quiet.

01-16-11, 01:16 PM	#13
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, well written : http://cryptocellar.web.cern.ch/cryp...MTR-2066-2.pdf