Arleigh Burke problems

[Deep_Nukem]

I can't kill the Arleigh Burke. Simple as that. Using LWAMI 3.10 it's like trying to solve a rubix cube. Nearly impossible for me. Here is some of my problems.

ASM's...from far away or short range = same result - all my missles get shot down and I'm always detected and shots sent my way always kill me.

53cm torps = Short range works, but they are too weak so you have to send at least 2, (3 is better) however, you can nearly bet that the return fire will kill you. Almost no chance.

53cm long range = torps only good out to 10 mi. Long range impossible because the AB out runs the range and wire is cut. Impossible.

63cm wake and 53 wake, no guidance and if you're too short range, = impossible because of the return fire. Long range = AB has plenty of time, always detects torps, and simply speeds up and gets out of the way causing torps to miss.

So in short, I'm out of short range options and long range options.

[Reaper51]

Kapitan,

The RINS (Russian Institute for Naval Studies, and yes, I just made that up) have been analyzing your tactical problem. We believe that the Arleigh Burke can be defeated by employing our newest tactic; the Bracket Attack™.

Try hiding below the layer (If you have one) and fire 2-4 65cm torpedoes at him. Target one at him, a snapshot on both sides, and your final 65cm should enable well behind him. If he runs left, right, or away he'll eat a 65cm. If that fails you could simply load your internal and external tubes with SS-N-27 Anti-ship missiles, and set the enable to 10 nmi.

As soon as you fire make a hard course change. If he fires on you, launch one active and one passive countermeasure. Then order 300m and put the hammer down.

[Kaye T. Bai]

On a similar note, it is nearly- no, not nearly. It IS impossible to penetrate a USN carrier strike group through aerial means in the LwAmi v3.10 mod.

Believe me, I tried. I sent almost 200 Backfire bombers armed for ASUW warfare at the group. Not one missile hit any ship in the group. All of the bombers were shot down.

[Reaper51]

Originally Posted by Kaye T. Bai

On a similar note, it is nearly- no, not nearly. It IS impossible to penetrate a USN carrier strike group through aerial means in the LwAmi v3.10 mod.

Believe me, I tried. I sent almost 200 Backfire bombers armed for ASUW warfare at the group. Not one missile hit any ship in the group. All of the bombers were shot down.

[sarcasm]Ah, simulation at it's finest.[/sarcasm]

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Deep_Nukem

I can't kill the Arleigh Burke. Simple as that. Using LWAMI 3.10 it's like trying to solve a rubix cube. Nearly impossible for me. Here is some of my problems.

ASM's...from far away or short range = same result - all my missles get shot down and I'm always detected and shots sent my way always kill me.

53cm torps = Short range works, but they are too weak so you have to send at least 2, (3 is better) however, you can nearly bet that the return fire will kill you. Almost no chance.

53cm long range = torps only good out to 10 mi. Long range impossible because the AB out runs the range and wire is cut. Impossible.

63cm wake and 53 wake, no guidance and if you're too short range, = impossible because of the return fire. Long range = AB has plenty of time, always detects torps, and simply speeds up and gets out of the way causing torps to miss.

So in short, I'm out of short range options and long range options.

The SS-N-27ASM can overwhelm the Burke in a saturation attack. For best results you'll want to fire from long range and enable the missiles from about 40km away. If you fire from close range, the Burke will hear the launch and/or detect the missiles on radar during the boost phase, and will ready its defenses, but if you surprise it, you'll get a few extra seconds as it "wakes up."

For a torpedo attack, just fire from inside no-escape range. (Or, if you want to stay away from ASROCs, fire from under the layer, if available, outside ASROC range and let the torps get close... works best if the target speed is relatively high, if it's slow it might be listening under the layer on its TA). Get a little closer if you're using wakehomers and expect to lose one weapon to the Nixie if you're using acoustic homing.

There really isn't anything special about the Burke, from the point of view of a submarine. It's just like any other warship armed with SAMs and ASROCs.

Originally Posted by Kaye T Bai

I sent almost 200 Backfire bombers armed for ASUW warfare at the group. Not one missile hit any ship in the group. All of the bombers were shot down.

The AS-4 Kitchen is obsolete and should not be able to penetrate a screen of multiple AEGIS ships.

[Kaye T. Bai]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

The AS-4 Kitchen is obsolete and should not be able to penetrate a screen of multiple AEGIS ships.

I see. What aerial platform/ASM would you recommend in a situation against a USN CSG? I'm trying everything I can, but to no avail.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Kaye T. Bai

I see. What aerial platform/ASM would you recommend in a situation against a USN CSG? I'm trying everything I can, but to no avail.

Well we got a few strike assets in the pipeline that would be quite effective. The JH-7 with a load of YJ-83s or a Su-34 with N-27 ASMs come to mind. You will have to wait for the next release for those.

Current units... hmmm.... a saturation attack of Brahmos missiles comes to mind. Or a large number of surface ships (like 30+) firing YJ-83s.

2 or more AEGIS ships makes for a tough nut to crack, AEGIS ships are sort of like Excalibur, armies and nations tremble at its mention for good reason...

A container ship with Klub missiles from inside the AAW screen comes to mind as well if you are feeling sneaky...

You could also slug it out, make wave after wave of attacks from outside of SAM range with air launched standoff missiles (N-27s, KH-65s etc) and deplete the VLS cells. Its not pretty but it works.

[OneShot]

When attacking another unit always keep in mind "What is its main job and what are its capabilities". Now the AEGIS Ships are designed as main AAW defenders if you shoot at it with missiles you fight it on its own turf - bad idea. Instead attack it with torpedos - the more the merrier. Your chances are a lot higher doing that.

As far as missiles are concerned ... lots of em from different angles arriving at the same time ... that should work. But I cant emphasize enough the fact that missiles should not be your primary choice against AEGIS ships.

[Kaye T. Bai]

Originally Posted by OneShot

When attacking another unit always keep in mind "What is its main job and what are its capabilities". Now the AEGIS Ships are designed as main AAW defenders if you shoot at it with missiles you fight it on its own turf - bad idea. Instead attack it with torpedos - the more the merrier. Your chances are a lot higher doing that.

I found out the hard way that aircraft are useless against AEGIS ships. It's like a giant spiderweb surrounding the CVN, on the slight chance that you penetrate the surrounding CGs, FFGs, and DDGs, there's no guarantee that you'll hit the CVN. Nonetheless, while ASMs fired from fixed wing aircraft are useless against the CSGs, ASMs fired from surface ships seem to fare better for some reason.

I also noticed that in a combat situation regarding a CVN CSG, FFGs are the first to go, as the Oliver Hazard Perry-class FFG is an aging platform and has little defense, if all, against ASMs particularly super-sonic ones. All it has is a single-armed Mk 13 missile launcher forward, and one Phalanx CIWS aft. That's it. Not to mention that the FFGs resistance against damage is like a boxer with no chin.

Anyway, the best weapon to use is the torpedo, I agree. But the CSG's ASW capabilities are fairly good and combine the fact of escorting SSNs, it'll be a tough nut to crack.

Originally Posted by OneShot

As far as missiles are concerned ... lots of em from different angles arriving at the same time ... that should work. But I cant emphasize enough the fact that missiles should not be your primary choice against AEGIS ships.

True, I found out the hard way that torpedoes and artillery fire, such as five inch guns and sixteen inch cannons, are the best against these types of ships. A Phalanx CIWS and a standard missile can't shoot down an artillery shell, torpedo or bullet, can they?

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Kaye T. Bai

A Phalanx CIWS and a standard missile can't shoot down an artillery shell, torpedo or bullet, can they?

Um...




...not in DW.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Kaye T. Bai

I also noticed that in a combat situation regarding a CVN CSG, FFGs are the first to go, as the Oliver Hazard Perry-class FFG is an aging platform and has little defense, if all, against ASMs particularly super-sonic ones. All it has is a single-armed Mk 13 missile launcher forward, and one Phalanx CIWS aft. That's it. Not to mention that the FFGs resistance against damage is like a boxer with no chin.

That's because the FFGs are ASW workhorses. In the USN currently only the Ticos and the FFG-7 carries both Helos and Towed Arrays (the Burkes its either/or depending on flight). Also (according to my best friend) the Navy still likes to use them a lot because of that big air search they carry makes then great as picket ships. But in a high AAW environment the FFG7 should operate with a AAW escort or with fighter cover.

Under the waterline the FFG-7 is to sensors what the AEGIS ships are above the waterline.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Kaye T. Bai

I see. What aerial platform/ASM would you recommend in a situation against a USN CSG? I'm trying everything I can, but to no avail.

Well, first I'm just going to agree with OneShot on this. If you're faced with an AAW ship, hit it with a submarine. Hit the ASW ships from the air.

That being said, I haven't put the BrahMos on any aircraft yet, although I will as soon as I read that the air-launched version has reached IOC. Right now the weapon that comes to mind is the Kh-31A, which is a miniaturized version of the SS-N-22. It's carried by Russian and Chinese Flankers. You're still better off using the more traditional approach of surface ships/SSGNs to hit a CSG, mostly because the aircraft AI is horrible. With either approach, saturation is key, and the designer is going to need to do a few tricks to maximize the # of missiles in the air at a time.

EDIT: And as TLAM mentioned, we'll have Su-34s armed with Alphas the next release.

[Guynumber7]

I dont see how the AS4 couldnt beat AEGIS. IT can in fleet command NWP when fired a lot.

Regardless,i recommend the KH-15S. It goes 3200+ knots.

[Molon Labe]

It cruises at very high altitude, it's very large, and it radiates from a long way off. Impossible not to see coming, and plenty of time to shoot it down.

Interesting about the KH-15S. I don't see it being much more effective, but carrying 10 instead of 3 can make a difference. I may have to designate the existing Backfire Tu-22M2 and add a -22M3 with the Kh-15...