Russian oil tycoon Khodorkovsky 'found guilty' in trial

Gerald · 12-27-10, 04:20 AM

Former oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky has been found guilty in his second trial on charges of embezzlement, Russian news agencies say.A judge in Moscow said Khodorkovsky and his business partner had been found guilty of embezzling property. The verdict is still being read out.Khodorkovsky is already serving an eight-year sentence for fraud and tax evasion. His supporters maintain the case is politically motivated.Khodorkovsky, 47, was due to be released next year, but the second trial could see him jailed until 2017.Germany's warning!

In the latest trial, Khodorkovsky and his business partner Platon Lebedev are accused of stealing hundreds of millions of tonnes of oil from the Yukos oil company and laundering the proceeds between 1998-2003.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12081564

Khodorkovsky has said he is prepared to spend the rest of his life in jail

Note: 27 December 2010 Last updated at 08:32 GMT

Betonov · 12-27-10, 04:46 AM

bad for him, he isn't living in slovenia, he would be given a retirement bonus equal to a years salary of a high official and a tax free status

kranz · 12-27-10, 05:19 AM

"This trial is considered a test of the rule of law in Russia," German Ambassador to Russia Ulrich Brandenburg told Russia's Interfax news agency.

lol'd. I'm wondering what he meant by saying this

I guess "the rule of law" passed the test, right?
2bad that the article doesn't say where he has been serving this 8 years so far coz it's not an ordinary prison. I hope our forum Human Rights Watch aka Amnesty International aka Skybird will grace us with his presence here.

Skybird · 12-27-10, 06:09 AM

Khodorkovsky is no freedom fighter or civil rights acitivist. He was a money launderer indeed, a godfather-like oligarch, a criminal who thought that becasue he was investing public funds for the state in risky businesses he would have a right to start dictating the state what policies to implement. That was in the Jelzin years. But he missed the point of time when the rules in the Kreml changed - due to Putin. Think about Putin what you want, but Putin enforced a strict limitation of the new tycoons' demands and power options, making it clear that their private wealth and happiness will only last as long as they stay out of the state'S business, and do not work against the Kreml.

Khodorkovsky abused the relative freedom of the 90s for his own criminal businesses. He is anything but a propagator of freedom or democracy for the people. There is no reason to shed a tear about this Mafiosi.

Also, we should take note of that the move against Kodorkowski, as well as Putin'S policies in general, are extremely popular with a vast majority of the Russian people. Who are we to constantly tell them what they should like and what not? As if the EU or the US are free from corruption and criminal policies! We have enough dirt under our own carpets, our interest with Russia must be stability before anything else, and finally we have ruined and effectively bancrupted our states with misled policies and financial mismanagement. The latter is what makes our ways anything but a shining example to the world. So: leave the Russians alone, and forget Khodorkovsky. He swam with the sharks and was one of them, and he got eaten. Big deal.

Skybird · 12-27-10, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

bad for him, he isn't living in slovenia, he would be given a retirement bonus equal to a years salary of a high official and a tax free status

Same here! Plus one or two public awards for his gains on behalf of Human Rights and Freedom.

kranz · 12-27-10, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Khodorkovsky is no freedom fighter or civil rights acitivist. He was a money launderer indeed, a godfather-like oligarch, a criminal who thought that becasue he was investing public funds for the state in risky businesses he would have a right to start dictating the state what policies to implement.

Ok, so you assumed that there are 4 conditions: "money laundering", "being a godfather-like oligarch", a "criminal" and "someone who has a right to start dictating the state what policies to implement". That 4th condition is just an euphemism you used to say that he openly said that he wants to challenge the current "reign" in an election. Are there any "oligarchs" who show no political aspirations? I bet there are, but in Russia you can steal as much as you want as long as you don't want to steal the golden paint from Kremlin's towers.

plus this:
"Mr Putin - now Russia's prime minister - referred to Khodorkovsky in a televised question-and-answer session last week, when he said he believed "a thief belongs in prison"."
I suggest you should edit your post and add that Khodorkovsky had a just trial.

Gerald · 12-27-10, 12:42 PM

The most important court trial in modern Russian history has drawn to an end. It is widely believed that by finding former oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky and his business partner Platon Lebedev guilty of embezzlement, the judge has ruled on something much more important than the fate of two defendants.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12083595

Note: Update record,27 December 2010 Last updated at 14:14 GMT

Skybird · 12-27-10, 02:22 PM

I have no and there can be no doubt that the court trial was staged. But that cannot be the West's concern - it is not in a position to tell the Russians what they should run their country like. What is more important for us is that Russia remains stable, and that seems to be not possible without a strong centralised government. Dem ocracy as tried unde Jelzin, served the country very badly and made it weak and a playxball of foreign powers and entrepreneurs. The caste of rich ologarchs now present in Russia - formed up in this era of relative freedom and decentralised - or better: lacking - power of Moscow.

In older threats I repeatedly indicated that I believe that democracies are the more dysfunctional and errazic and prone to corruption and inner rottening the bigger the society is that tries the experiment of democracy. Russia spreads through various different cultural spheres and includes several very different people and their traditions and worldviews. In the southern provinces it is challenged by growing Islamic movements that want to separate, if they can. I think it is illusional to govern and keep together the national and political entity that "Russia" is - with a non-centralised and more "democratic" government. Democracy would strengthen separatism, and by that would work for the falling-apart of several parts of Russia. For a country having nuc lear weapons and an unsatisfied military and a secret service that is highly influential and powerful, such conditions are a very threatening danger - for Russia, and for the West as well.

Stability must be our priority regarding Russia. Call it Realpolitik. Compared to destabilization in Russia, Putinism is the lesser evil.

Gerald · 12-30-10, 10:03 AM

Imprisoned former oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, once Russia's richest man, has been sentenced to six more years in jail for fraud.With his current sentence due to expire next year, Khodorkovsky, 47, now faces imprisonment until 2017. He could "only be reformed by being isolated from society", the judge's verdict said.Khodorkovsky was convicted on Monday in a judgment criticised by the US and others as selective justice.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12093922

Note: update record, 30 December 2010 Last updated at 14:51 GMT

kranz · 12-30-10, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendor

He could "only be reformed by being isolated from society", the judge's verdict said.

I just love what the judge said. As if the society was any better...

Gerald · 12-30-10, 12:38 PM

True,

12-30-10, 05:35 PM

It's pretty standard in Russia at the moment ,you criticise Putin and company and you either get charged with "Corruption",(thats a good one ,it can mean anything you want it too.),or you get a visit from "Unknown criminal elements" and get the snot kicked out of you,(Of course it's amazing how selective the criminal are in their choice of targets ,always seems to be someone that has said bad things about the government!).

12-27-10, 04:20 AM	#1
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Russian oil tycoon Khodorkovsky 'found guilty' in trial Former oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky has been found guilty in his second trial on charges of embezzlement, Russian news agencies say.A judge in Moscow said Khodorkovsky and his business partner had been found guilty of embezzling property. The verdict is still being read out.Khodorkovsky is already serving an eight-year sentence for fraud and tax evasion. His supporters maintain the case is politically motivated.Khodorkovsky, 47, was due to be released next year, but the second trial could see him jailed until 2017.Germany's warning! In the latest trial, Khodorkovsky and his business partner Platon Lebedev are accused of stealing hundreds of millions of tonnes of oil from the Yukos oil company and laundering the proceeds between 1998-2003. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12081564 Khodorkovsky has said he is prepared to spend the rest of his life in jail Note: 27 December 2010 Last updated at 08:32 GMT __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

12-27-10, 06:09 AM	#4
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,629 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Khodorkovsky is no freedom fighter or civil rights acitivist. He was a money launderer indeed, a godfather-like oligarch, a criminal who thought that becasue he was investing public funds for the state in risky businesses he would have a right to start dictating the state what policies to implement. That was in the Jelzin years. But he missed the point of time when the rules in the Kreml changed - due to Putin. Think about Putin what you want, but Putin enforced a strict limitation of the new tycoons' demands and power options, making it clear that their private wealth and happiness will only last as long as they stay out of the state'S business, and do not work against the Kreml. Khodorkovsky abused the relative freedom of the 90s for his own criminal businesses. He is anything but a propagator of freedom or democracy for the people. There is no reason to shed a tear about this Mafiosi. Also, we should take note of that the move against Kodorkowski, as well as Putin'S policies in general, are extremely popular with a vast majority of the Russian people. Who are we to constantly tell them what they should like and what not? As if the EU or the US are free from corruption and criminal policies! We have enough dirt under our own carpets, our interest with Russia must be stability before anything else, and finally we have ruined and effectively bancrupted our states with misled policies and financial mismanagement. The latter is what makes our ways anything but a shining example to the world. So: leave the Russians alone, and forget Khodorkovsky. He swam with the sharks and was one of them, and he got eaten. Big deal. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-27-10, 12:42 PM	#7
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	The verdict that may shake Russia The most important court trial in modern Russian history has drawn to an end. It is widely believed that by finding former oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky and his business partner Platon Lebedev guilty of embezzlement, the judge has ruled on something much more important than the fate of two defendants. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12083595 Note: Update record,27 December 2010 Last updated at 14:14 GMT __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

12-27-10, 02:22 PM	#8
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,629 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I have no and there can be no doubt that the court trial was staged. But that cannot be the West's concern - it is not in a position to tell the Russians what they should run their country like. What is more important for us is that Russia remains stable, and that seems to be not possible without a strong centralised government. Dem ocracy as tried unde Jelzin, served the country very badly and made it weak and a playxball of foreign powers and entrepreneurs. The caste of rich ologarchs now present in Russia - formed up in this era of relative freedom and decentralised - or better: lacking - power of Moscow. In older threats I repeatedly indicated that I believe that democracies are the more dysfunctional and errazic and prone to corruption and inner rottening the bigger the society is that tries the experiment of democracy. Russia spreads through various different cultural spheres and includes several very different people and their traditions and worldviews. In the southern provinces it is challenged by growing Islamic movements that want to separate, if they can. I think it is illusional to govern and keep together the national and political entity that "Russia" is - with a non-centralised and more "democratic" government. Democracy would strengthen separatism, and by that would work for the falling-apart of several parts of Russia. For a country having nuc lear weapons and an unsatisfied military and a secret service that is highly influential and powerful, such conditions are a very threatening danger - for Russia, and for the West as well. Stability must be our priority regarding Russia. Call it Realpolitik. Compared to destabilization in Russia, Putinism is the lesser evil. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-30-10, 10:03 AM	#9
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Khodorkovsky gets six more years in Russia jail Imprisoned former oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, once Russia's richest man, has been sentenced to six more years in jail for fraud.With his current sentence due to expire next year, Khodorkovsky, 47, now faces imprisonment until 2017. He could "only be reformed by being isolated from society", the judge's verdict said.Khodorkovsky was convicted on Monday in a judgment criticised by the US and others as selective justice. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12093922 Note: update record, 30 December 2010 Last updated at 14:51 GMT __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

12-27-10, 04:46 AM	#2
Betonov Navy Seal Join Date: May 2009 Location: Slovenia Posts: 8,647 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	bad for him, he isn't living in slovenia, he would be given a retirement bonus equal to a years salary of a high official and a tax free status

12-27-10, 05:19 AM	#3
kranz The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Poland Posts: 1,430 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	"This trial is considered a test of the rule of law in Russia," German Ambassador to Russia Ulrich Brandenburg told Russia's Interfax news agency. lol'd. I'm wondering what he meant by saying this I guess "the rule of law" passed the test, right? 2bad that the article doesn't say where he has been serving this 8 years so far coz it's not an ordinary prison. I hope our forum Human Rights Watch aka Amnesty International aka Skybird will grace us with his presence here.

12-30-10, 12:38 PM	#11
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	True, __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

12-30-10, 05:35 PM	#12
darius359au Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	It's pretty standard in Russia at the moment ,you criticise Putin and company and you either get charged with "Corruption",(thats a good one ,it can mean anything you want it too.),or you get a visit from "Unknown criminal elements" and get the snot kicked out of you,(Of course it's amazing how selective the criminal are in their choice of targets ,always seems to be someone that has said bad things about the government!).