Jobless benefits do more spurs more recovery than tax breaks for the rich

Torvald Von Mansee · 12-02-10, 03:16 PM

http://www.slate.com/id/2276473/

Oops...

It should be "does more to spur recovery"

12-02-10, 03:46 PM

All fine and good if Americans are willing to accept the European model of perpetual greater than +10% unemployment. Because that is the model on which this article is based.

When the economy comes back we won't need some Obama agency to tell us.

August · 12-02-10, 04:15 PM

What a load of BS. From where I sit, extending unemployment benefits doesn't spur recovery, if anything it spurs laziness.

I see way too many of our students who, although they can easily get a job with the skills they have learned in our trade school, don't bother looking because they are still sucking from the government teat.

"Why work when you can get a paycheck for free?", seems to be their reasoning. Now that the government is talking about ending the free ride they are coming out of the woodwork demanding placement assistance.

Armistead · 12-03-10, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

What a load of BS. From where I sit, extending unemployment benefits doesn't spur recovery, if anything it spurs laziness.

I see way too many of our students who, although they can easily get a job with the skills they have learned in our trade school, don't bother looking because they are still sucking from the government teat.

"Why work when you can get a paycheck for free?", seems to be their reasoning. Now that the government is talking about ending the free ride they are coming out of the woodwork demanding placement assistance.

Full time students aren't allowed to draw, part time may get some if they've had previous unemployment. You have to have a recent pay quarter to draw.

Actually unemployment is cheaper to pay than all the social programs people out of work go to.

Course as an employer I'm amazed at how easily they give these benefits. I've fired people for failing drug test, not showing up to work for weeks, ect...and even if I fight their claim, they always win benefits...Then you see them working on the side while drawing.

I had one guy drive a van through a garage door, hit a benz, did about 20K in total damage, failed a drug test, fired and still got benefits.

August · 12-03-10, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

Full time students aren't allowed to draw, part time may get some if they've had previous unemployment. You have to have a recent pay quarter to draw.

Maybe the laws are different in your area but here well over 3/4ths of my present class are drawing unemployment benefits.

Quote:

Actually unemployment is cheaper to pay than all the social programs people out of work go to.

In addition to regular benefits the government is paying for their tuition as well. In out little school alone i'd bet at least 200 students get this deal.

Quote:

Course as an employer I'm amazed at how easily they give these benefits. I've fired people for failing drug test, not showing up to work for weeks, ect...and even if I fight their claim, they always win benefits...Then you see them working on the side while drawing.

I had one guy drive a van through a garage door, hit a benz, did about 20K in total damage, failed a drug test, fired and still got benefits.

Here's where we can agree. Employers tell me it takes a literal mountain of paperwork to deny someone benefits. It's so difficult they often just bite the bullet and pay benefits to people who they should have been able to fire outright.

Armistead · 12-07-10, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Maybe the laws are different in your area but here well over 3/4ths of my present class are drawing unemployment benefits.

In addition to regular benefits the government is paying for their tuition as well. In out little school alone i'd bet at least 200 students get this deal.

Here's where we can agree. Employers tell me it takes a literal mountain of paperwork to deny someone benefits. It's so difficult they often just bite the bullet and pay benefits to people who they should have been able to fire outright.

They do almost always get them. It's not a lot of paperwork, they file, you get it and can protest causing a hearing. I'm been to hundreds of them and lose 90% of the time. They just know they have no income and it's sitting there to get.

I had one guy leave the job without telling me, leaving the crew with no van, no way home, ect. I was even on the job. Called him and he said I told him we could get off at lunch, so he left. I told him hopefully we could get done by lunch, but we weren't and come back. He said he had to go home. I had to have the van back, so I told him to bring it to my house and he did. He couldn't find a way home and was gonna walk 20 miles home. He had a heart condition, so I offered him a car I had, refused. We argued and I even threw the keys at his feet...wouldn't take them. I told him we needed to part ways and let him go.

His claim stated I fired him for being sick and forced him to walk home in the summer heat with a heart condition. He stated he had to get an ambulance to come get him. I was so mad I protested his claim....still lost.

SteamWake · 12-03-10, 08:37 AM

This is proof beyond doubt that the left desires the euro style socalisim and that Pelosi is loosing her sanity.

AVGWarhawk · 12-03-10, 10:18 AM

SO TELL ME. WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?

Do we continuously hand out cash? There will be no incentive to stop watching Oprah and get off the coach applying for jobs.

kiwi_2005 · 12-04-10, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

What a load of BS. From where I sit, extending unemployment benefits doesn't spur recovery, if anything it spurs laziness.

I see way too many of our students who, although they can easily get a job with the skills they have learned in our trade school, don't bother looking because they are still sucking from the government teat.

"Why work when you can get a paycheck for free?", seems to be their reasoning. Now that the government is talking about ending the free ride they are coming out of the woodwork demanding placement assistance.

Well said. Our Prime Minister John Key would employ you as Minster of Welfare in an instant!

Whenever I'm out of work I become this negative, lazy, sloth. Work is good for the well being and keeps me sane!

XabbaRus · 12-02-10, 04:15 PM

Really UK unemployment has been perpetually under 10% and yet you in teh past have criticised the UK for its system of benefits.

mookiemookie · 12-02-10, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's, has found that $1 in unemployment benefits generates $1.61 in economic activity. (That's the second most-stimulative form of government spending, behind food stamps.) A dollar in tax cuts—not just to the rich, but to everyone—generates about 32 cents.

I predict that every post railing against extending unemployment benefits will ignore this data and offer up nothing but rhetoric and ideology.

But facts are facts, and there it is in black and white. Extending unemployment benefits is indeed more stimulative than tax cuts. Discussion over.

Ducimus · 12-02-10, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I predict that every post railing against extending unemployment benefits will ignore this data and offer up nothing but rhetoric and ideology.

But facts are facts, and there it is in black and white. Extending unemployment benefits is indeed more stimulative than tax cuts. Discussion over.

Can you cite some reputable, non partisan sources?

On a personal rant regarding tax breaks for the rich vs the poor.... I wish "trickle down" worked. I really do. But i don't think it does. I'm starting to think money only trickles up, not the other way around. Just my opinion, based on no sources but my own observation of daily life.

yubba · 12-02-10, 04:55 PM

Stimulus didn't work, printing money out of thin air to help the jobless isn't going to help, only when the government decides it is going too quite these anti business policies, then we should see some improvement, lefty Dems still don't get it. Rush, said that the fed sent 3 trillion dollars too bailout UK banks, so why are we bailing Europe out?

mookiemookie · 12-02-10, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Can you cite some reputable, non partisan sources?

I just did. Moody's is a reputable non-partisan source.

Quote:

Moody's Corporation (NYSE: MCO) is the holding company for Moody's Investors Service, a Credit rating agency which performs international financial research and analysis on commercial and government entities. The company also ranks the credit-worthiness of borrowers using a standardized ratings scale. The company has a 40% share in the world credit rating market, as does its main rival, Standard & Poor's.

Bubblehead1980 · 12-03-10, 06:31 PM

I believe "trickle down" works, just not as many people think.I've noticed a lot of people think trickle down means well the boss is rich so I am going to be rich.Trickle down more describes how those at the top are doing well and therefore can do things such as hire more people, expand operations, perhaps afford higher salaries, bonuses etc Worked well in the past and would prob work better.The problem is it needs to be sold in a realistic fashion, clarify how it actually works.The problem with that is many American's today believe it is the government's job to "level the playing field" instead of taking on the fight themselves.The playing field is basically level, sure some start with more advantages but that is life.Plenty of people have came from really horrible circumstances and "made it" without the government "helping them"

Say what you want about , but it certainly works better than Obama's "trickle down poverty" of the last two years.

12-02-10, 03:16 PM	#1
Torvald Von Mansee Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: CA4528 Posts: 1,693 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Jobless benefits do more spurs more recovery than tax breaks for the rich http://www.slate.com/id/2276473/ Oops... It should be "does more to spur recovery" __________________ "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you" - Leon Trotsky

12-02-10, 04:15 PM	#3
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	What a load of BS. From where I sit, extending unemployment benefits doesn't spur recovery, if anything it spurs laziness. I see way too many of our students who, although they can easily get a job with the skills they have learned in our trade school, don't bother looking because they are still sucking from the government teat. "Why work when you can get a paycheck for free?", seems to be their reasoning. Now that the government is talking about ending the free ride they are coming out of the woodwork demanding placement assistance. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

12-03-10, 08:37 AM	#7
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	This is proof beyond doubt that the left desires the euro style socalisim and that Pelosi is loosing her sanity. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

12-03-10, 10:18 AM	#8
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	SO TELL ME. WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE? Do we continuously hand out cash? There will be no incentive to stop watching Oprah and get off the coach applying for jobs. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

12-02-10, 04:15 PM	#10
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Really UK unemployment has been perpetually under 10% and yet you in teh past have criticised the UK for its system of benefits. __________________

12-02-10, 03:46 PM	#2
The Third Man Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	All fine and good if Americans are willing to accept the European model of perpetual greater than +10% unemployment. Because that is the model on which this article is based. When the economy comes back we won't need some Obama agency to tell us.

12-02-10, 04:55 PM	#13
yubba Admiral Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: in a neighborhood near you Posts: 2,478 Downloads: 293 Uploads: 2	Stimulus didn't work, printing money out of thin air to help the jobless isn't going to help, only when the government decides it is going too quite these anti business policies, then we should see some improvement, lefty Dems still don't get it. Rush, said that the fed sent 3 trillion dollars too bailout UK banks, so why are we bailing Europe out?

12-03-10, 06:31 PM	#15
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,100 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	I believe "trickle down" works, just not as many people think.I've noticed a lot of people think trickle down means well the boss is rich so I am going to be rich.Trickle down more describes how those at the top are doing well and therefore can do things such as hire more people, expand operations, perhaps afford higher salaries, bonuses etc Worked well in the past and would prob work better.The problem is it needs to be sold in a realistic fashion, clarify how it actually works.The problem with that is many American's today believe it is the government's job to "level the playing field" instead of taking on the fight themselves.The playing field is basically level, sure some start with more advantages but that is life.Plenty of people have came from really horrible circumstances and "made it" without the government "helping them" Say what you want about , but it certainly works better than Obama's "trickle down poverty" of the last two years.