My Periscope vs SH5's Periscope

[Frederf]

Looking at the periscope views in Silent Hunter 5 videos has gotten me down. The design philosophy that has started in Silent Hunter 3 (or before? I haven't played anything previous) has unfortunately fallen into a narrow-minded rut with regards to the periscope interface. Small tweaks and addons have grown from SH3 to SH4 to SH5 when what's really needed is a whole new breath of fresh air to the concept.


If this doesn't strike you as wrong, I don't know what will.

Too long the idea has been to bog down the player in a bevy of 2D GUI elements that really have no basis in reality. If real Kaluns and Captains of WWII managed to sail their vessels without the benefit of a 2D GUI, surely us video game players can manage keeping such effrontery to a low roar. The 3D submarine interior art is getting better all the time... why aren't we utilizing it properly?!

I present to you a tasty glimpse of beautiful focus and simplicity.


Ahh, isn't that better?

But what about those functions that are stripped, won't they be missed? Here we take a case-by-case basis view of all the commands & displays on the original periscope interface and either move, hide, or delete them.


The offenders that need to go aware (red) and the annoyances that don't need to be permanent (green).

1. Status icon - Whoopdeedoo. Who needs these things? What are they? A brief flash maybe to get your attention but after 3-5 seconds they should be gone! Globe and watch can get their own periscope, this one belongs to the captain!
   
2. A "you're underwater" status, TC control, TC quick buttons, shortcuts to stations... really? You guys have to intrude on my personal time with sweet Lady Eyepiece, REALLY? We know we're underwater, TC control is a keyboard thing that can fade quickly after use, and any stations I can walk to or give orders to from where I'm standing. Gone!!
3. There's no such thing as this bearing readout. It's complete fiction. Bearings are read (most of the time by helper crew and not the player) off the exterior of the periscope. Gone!!
4. I'm pointed at a ship, I know. Happy bubble not necessary... GONE!!
5. Recognition manual while looking through the periscope? I'm one talented 5-eyed Kalun... Gone.
6. Minimap, ugh. Digital depth readout, what? Happy permanent preset depth buttons? No thanks, how often do I change depth anyway? If I want to change depth next week I'll give an order using the order interface. 9 gear submarine, how hot rod. If I want to change speed I'll give an order, until then go away! If I want to know what speed I'm going I will look away from the periscope and look at the gauge on the wall... just like Mr. Big Daddy Real Life Kalun! All of it is OUTTA HERE!
7. Torpedo settings... what am I ordering these changes or am I turning the screws myself? Make up your mind. If I am ordering these changes then I'll use the orders interface, if I am turning the screws myself then I need a new crew! Torpedoes were prepared before the attack, attacks take time and cooperation. This is standard submarine gameplay Silent Hunter! All of this junk is bye-bye!
8. Ok, this is talking to your crew, something that real Kaluns did in real submarines while having their real bushy eyebrows pressed up against real periscopes. However I don't need his speech balloon and chat buffer clogging up my view 100% of the time, just when I need him. This interaction gets relegated to pop up, minimalist, crew orders/interaction 2D UI.
9. Why is my sonar operator texting me like we're facebook buddies?! Surely we can combine and/or standardize all crew verbal interactions. Why is this different visually than talking to my XO? Does my young hydrophone operator really speak with a white background while my manly XO talks with the classic gray background from southern Austria? Can we have faith that the audio alone is sufficient most of the time and hide, fade, make optional the WoW text chat buffer nonsense?

Orders Interface

If you think of the Captain giving orders to the crew, you think of a conversation. Do conversations happen in rusty, bolted on steel panels with dials? No. Do options for conversational topics hang in the air all the time waiting to be said? No. Conversations are initiated, constructed, executed, and then dismissed. Naturally SH5's orders should follow these guidelines. As captain I should be able to raise my voice out of notion, quickly get to the point, speak the command, and then let the conversation "close" back again to nothing so I can continue my tasks.

From nothing...
This means any interaction with the boat & crew other than real, physical touching of controls by the captain himself should be invisible and absent until such a time as that interaction is called for.

Breaking the silence...
When the captain speaks he commands. Holding down a large, friendly key such as space bar, a semi-transparent overlay pops up giving the captain power to construct a verbal command with the clarity and immediacy that mimics real vocalization.

Making it happen...As the order interface is clicked on or the orders overlay is dismissed (by releasing the held space bar or by dismissing a toggled arrangement), the captain verbalizes his order and the chain of events that makes that happen begins. Often this means time will pass until the effect occurs. This is good as it makes the player feel that he is on a 2000 ton submarine with 60 men and not an iPhone app.

Back to nothing...
As the order is finished the captain returns to observing only the 3D world around him, making the player feel at one and "there" on the boat.


A very rough design of what the orders overlay might look like

[ETR3(SS)]

I gotta say I agree with you. But I gotta say what would do the sim wonders is voice commands instead of click here or click there.

[Chaoic16]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

I gotta say I agree with you. But I gotta say what would do the sim wonders is voice commands instead of click here or click there.

Hell NO, I would disagree with this if there should be a mod that would force to use voice command as standard mod. I would rather for mods to enable it as 'option' between clicking or voice command. So as deaf gamer, having voice only command would be extremely frustating and useless for me, I am not able to speak much. I would rather to have clicky mode instead.




Chaoic out...

[Elphaba]

bump

Is this 'project' still alive? Or have the 'crappy' SH3/4 2D toolbars negated it?



Elphaba

[Ablemaster]

Go for it Fred ive been reading through this thread and your ideas are both excellent, realistic and true, about time a view like this is implemented, i believe this would be a leap in the right direction. Very immersive and of course historically accurate, your ideas are spot on mate. Sure many would favour your approach and pull us away from the small view arcade like portal we have seen many times in the past. Anyways nuff said. Look forward to your updates in the future mate, thanks.

[Frederf]

Originally this was not really a project, it was a general SH5 forum thread that was moved into the SH5 Mod forum as its first topic since it was the most "mod-like" at that time. That being said, the release of SH4-like UI mods has done anything but satisfy me. It's a good stopgap measure but it would pain me if that "comfort zone" was as far as UI ideas ever progress. I will try to integrate the ideas shown here into a larger mod package.

[Frederf]

Periscope View as Momentary

Our common Silent Hunter view of the periscope view is strange and warped. We expect that being at this view is a permanent, homey situation. As such we expect all of the necessary controls for the entire torpedo attack be viewed simultaneously on this "home" screen. It is this view that is fundamentally flawed and creates such a weird, unhistorical, non-immersed feeling.

Instead, I would like to see a Silent Hunter where the Captain (during the attack) is at home near but not looking through the periscope. Looking through the eyepiece should feel like something that is singular in purpose and not a place where one could fall asleep comfortably.

Actions Done Near Periscope

• Recognition manual
• Checking TDC data
• Observing speed, heading, depth repeaters
• Controlling torpedo tube doors
• Setting stadimeter horizontal-vertical
• Setting stadimeter target height
• Checking periscope bearing
• Raising/lowering periscope
• Turning periscope
• Checking periscope depth meter
• Plotting or viewing plotted contacts

Actions Done Looking Through Periscope

• Turning periscope
• Switching magnifications (with visual effect!)
• Adjusting split-image stadimeter (mousewheel!)
• Firing torpedo (GUI order or keyboard)

Lowering or raising the periscope outside of a certain range should kick the player out of that view. It is impossible to look out of the 'scope when it is below the deck plate!

For this concept to fly, navigation of view from periscope-near to periscope-through must be natural, fast, and uncomplicated. I would suggest right-mouse for the toggle if the controls are like SH4. Once for going from "near" to "through" and the same for "through" to "near." Double right-clicking might automatically retract the periscope or extend the periscope to/from a meter or so below the surface for stealth. In real life, addressing the periscope and pulling away from the eyepiece back and forth, back and forth along with raising and lowering must have been natural, second-nature motions for the captain. The control scheme should strive diligently to replicate the ease of switching onto and away from the eyepiece as it's going to happen a lot.


Large Periscope, Magnification, and Resolution

Previous modified Silent Hunter games have struggled with the problem of periscope magnification. Using historical magnification values, coupled with the relatively low resolution of computer monitors has meant a sighting performance below that of real life. Modifications have made the decision to increase magnification to fictional levels desiring to replicate real world results in terms of overall performance when recognizing flags, etc. The lesson in all of this is simple, the bigger the periscope's view on the computer monitor, the better. Only by having the round viewable area meet or even exceed the rectangular box of the computer monitor's frame can Silent Hunter hope to appease both masters of historical magnification and historical sighting performance. Silent Hunter 5's default periscope view makes poor use of available screen space.


Real-World Restrictions

Like the restrictions on at what level of extension it is possible to look through the eyepiece, there are many other subtleties of periscope use that have been missing from previous Silent Hunter games.

• Vibration due to high speed
• Flooding and fogging due to battle damage and poor maintenance
• Damage from unsupported surface high-periscope use in heavy seas
• Poor low-light performance
• Unacceptable night performance

[CaptainHaplo]

I have to say - a well thought out arguement for removing alot of the clutter. However, remember who the game is aimed at - not just the sim buyer - but the casual gamer crowd. Because of that - the accessibility needs to be there.

However, I do like the idea of OPTIONS to turn it all off and select a overlay effect as you suggest. If it doesn't come out like that - expect it to be modded in!

[FIREWALL]

Excellent post Frederf




QUOTE=CaptainHaplo;1270259]I have to say - a well thought out arguement for removing alot of the clutter. However, remember who the game is aimed at - not just the sim buyer - but the casual gamer crowd. Because of that - the accessibility needs to be there.

However, I do like the idea of OPTIONS to turn it all off and select a overlay effect as you suggest. If it doesn't come out like that - expect it to be modded in![/QUOTE]

I couldn't have said it better Capt.H

[Heretic]

Wow... That's some inspired imagineering. The first person perspective really lends itself to a different way of looking at things. In the previous games, you were the captain, but you were also more than just the captain, if that makes any sense?

I really hope you'd consider going ahead with this line of thinking for the rest of the UI and sharing it with us. Even if you don't mod it yourself, it's great inspiration.

[THE_MASK]

Now this is the sort of post i like . Imagine this with voice recognition and Nividia 3D hardware and 120hz monitor.

[Frederf]

The thing is, I don't believe the clutter to be very "casual-friendly" either. I think the clutter is no good for anyone. A complex and, let's be frank, clinical interface is exactly the opposite to what the casual audience would want. Making Silent Hunter look like MS Office with buttons, drop downs, and such can't appeal to the predictable visceral, visual, real wants of the so called casuals.

Clicking this abstract representation, clicking that 2D dial... how unemotional. Isn't it a baser, more emotional instinct to grab the real world controls as they appear before you in 3D instead of letting them be a pretty backdrop for an in-essence 2D adventure?

[Onkel Neal]

Great concepts, Fred, hope you don't mind if I make this the inaugural threads in the SH5 Mods forum.

Carry on.

[mstang67]

Just need to petition a company like logitech or saitek, a company who makes joysticks and panels for other games, to make us a periscope, tdc, and engine order telegraph. Now THAT would be somethin! (Not that I believe they would do it)

[reaper7]

What would make it ideal for me is dual screen mode where the scope could be full screen on one screen and all your controls and maps on the second screen.
They one could build a model of a scope with an LCD creen embeded and use it like the real deal, similar to the guys at viperpit that buils fully working f16 cockpits. See here http://www.viperpit.org/smf/index.php