The loaded question at the end is cute

Torvald Von Mansee · 10-08-10, 12:41 PM

http://prof77.wordpress.com/2010/09/...-in-the-world/

Castout · 10-08-10, 06:29 PM

More effective law enforcement?

A quadruple increase in policing performance?

Or a quadruple decrease in social condition in general?

Torvald Von Mansee · 10-08-10, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

More effective law enforcement?

A quadruple increase in policing performance?

Or a quadruple decrease in social condition in general?

Ronald Reagan's "tough on drugs" campaign and mandatory minimum sentencing.

TLAM Strike · 10-08-10, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

More effective law enforcement?

A quadruple increase in policing performance?

On the right track... in 1987 this guy showed up...

10-09-10, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Ronald Reagan's "tough on drugs" campaign and mandatory minimum sentencing

You must also consider that the sharp rise also coincided with with a flood drugs and the related crime which was the "crack epidemic", which funnily enough can be linked to the very government who said it was getting tough on drugs.

tater · 10-09-10, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

Ronald Reagan's "tough on drugs" campaign and mandatory minimum sentencing.

Except that only ~1/3 of the increase is apparently due to drug incarcerations. When you posted this, I immediately went to look up the "why" bit, and fully expected it to be drug enforcement, and was surprised that 2/3 of the (huge) increase is NOT drugs. I'm no fan of criminalizing drugs (the dems happily jumped on that band wagon as well), but it's not Reagan's fault (sorry to rain on your parade).

Never found the real reason.

Platapus · 10-09-10, 01:13 PM

This has been a problem with me for a while and it frustrates me that I don't know what the solution is.

When someone is released from prison, they have a choice to make between two general categories.

1. Be a good boy and attempt to operate within the legal society

2. Be a bad boy and attempt to operate within the illegal society.

We, as a society would prefer this person to choose option 1. But let's look at the realities of option 1

Being a "good boy" will probably result in one or more of the following happening

1. Minimum wage job and the resulting low standard of living
2. Menial labour or a job with little self-actualization and little social prestige.
3. Being shunned by the legal society because this person is an ex-CON (you are not one of us)
4. Being shunned by the illegal society because this person is an EX-con (you are not one of us)

Faced with one or more of these does not make "being a good boy" an attractive future. It may make going back to being a "bad boy" seem more attractive. And that is not what we want to happen.

What, as a society can we do? I just don't know.

1 and 2? Can't really reward being a bad boy by giving them high paying and prestigious jobs

Besides not all criminals are capable of higher paying jobs.

4? We really don't have any control over 4

Perhaps as a society we can start de-glamorizing criminals, but that will have little influence.

That leaves 3. And the question I can't answer is can/should society do anything with respect to 3? There have been some small community integration projects in the mid-west that have had some success, but it does not seem to be scalable to anywhere new our prison population.

We can always be internet tough guys and just say "F em" they made the choice to be criminals, society should not do anything. That may make us feel emotionally better, is that attitude going to "solve the problem"?

I just don't know. I guess in the mean time we will be building a lot more prisons.

Castout · 10-10-10, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

On the right track... in 1987 this guy showed up...

Worse this guy showed up for year long Halloween years after years on and off

Somebody needs to invite this guy to his Halloween party so to keep him off the street while Dowly's taking over USA.

Sailor Steve · 10-10-10, 09:52 AM

@ Platapus: Seriously good points. A convicted felon cannot vote, he cannot own deadly weapons, and I know a couple of ex-cons who, though they have some income, have trouble getting a place to live because many landlords will not even take their applications. You can lie to a prospective boss, but if he finds out you will lose the job and that too will end up on your record.

An ex-cop I once worked with espoused the belief that once time had been fully served the criminal's record should be expunged and all rights restored to him. Otherwise what's the point of using the phrase "paid his debt to society"?

10-08-10, 12:41 PM	#1
Torvald Von Mansee Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: CA4528 Posts: 1,693 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	The loaded question at the end is cute http://prof77.wordpress.com/2010/09/...-in-the-world/ __________________ "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you" - Leon Trotsky

10-08-10, 06:29 PM	#2
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	More effective law enforcement? A quadruple increase in policing performance? Or a quadruple decrease in social condition in general? __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

10-09-10, 01:13 PM	#7
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,361 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	This has been a problem with me for a while and it frustrates me that I don't know what the solution is. When someone is released from prison, they have a choice to make between two general categories. 1. Be a good boy and attempt to operate within the legal society 2. Be a bad boy and attempt to operate within the illegal society. We, as a society would prefer this person to choose option 1. But let's look at the realities of option 1 Being a "good boy" will probably result in one or more of the following happening 1. Minimum wage job and the resulting low standard of living 2. Menial labour or a job with little self-actualization and little social prestige. 3. Being shunned by the legal society because this person is an ex-CON (you are not one of us) 4. Being shunned by the illegal society because this person is an EX-con (you are not one of us) Faced with one or more of these does not make "being a good boy" an attractive future. It may make going back to being a "bad boy" seem more attractive. And that is not what we want to happen. What, as a society can we do? I just don't know. 1 and 2? Can't really reward being a bad boy by giving them high paying and prestigious jobs Besides not all criminals are capable of higher paying jobs. 4? We really don't have any control over 4 Perhaps as a society we can start de-glamorizing criminals, but that will have little influence. That leaves 3. And the question I can't answer is can/should society do anything with respect to 3? There have been some small community integration projects in the mid-west that have had some success, but it does not seem to be scalable to anywhere new our prison population. We can always be internet tough guys and just say "F em" they made the choice to be criminals, society should not do anything. That may make us feel emotionally better, is that attitude going to "solve the problem"? I just don't know. I guess in the mean time we will be building a lot more prisons. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

10-10-10, 09:52 AM	#9
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	@ Platapus: Seriously good points. A convicted felon cannot vote, he cannot own deadly weapons, and I know a couple of ex-cons who, though they have some income, have trouble getting a place to live because many landlords will not even take their applications. You can lie to a prospective boss, but if he finds out you will lose the job and that too will end up on your record. An ex-cop I once worked with espoused the belief that once time had been fully served the criminal's record should be expunged and all rights restored to him. Otherwise what's the point of using the phrase "paid his debt to society"? __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo