Do We Really Have What It Takes?

[Fish40]

I'm not poseing this question to the guys out there who have Naval experience, because you have an unfair advantage. Do you think with the knowlege we have from playing SH4 that we would actually be able to track and successfully attack a ship?

[CCIP]

Sure, but the bigger problem is that with the knowledge from playing SH4 we wouldn't be able to crew and operate an actual submarine

SH4 might teach a good bit about commanding a sub during the attack stages, but a boat full of wannabe captains ain't gonna go very far...

[Armistead]

I assume you mean if we could go back in time to WW2.

Not even close...

For me, if I could even figure how to get a real scope up, if I saw a DD near, I would probably crap myself,

Destroyeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrr,,rrrr,rrr,er.. What's the command for getting the hell out of here.

[razark]

I'd say commanding a desktop would be a lot different from commanding actual people.

I don't think any single person simulation, no matter how realistic, is going to make you anywhere close to a real sub skipper. We might have the techniques, much of the knowledge, even many of the tools, they used, but none of us are doing it in the middle of the ocean. We all have the pause button, time compression, and we can save and reload. Very few of us have our computers set up on a rolling and pitching desk. We don't have to worry about the walls crushing in on us, or the house flooding.

Most of all, when we play, there are no lives at stake.

[Rockin Robbins]

I think just as Microsoft Flight Simulator accelerated the training of jet fighter pilots in spite of differences from the real thing, the Silent Hunter games could make you a better sub sailor.

But no, you couldn't go back in time, jump on a Gato in the middle of the Pacific and show those simpletons a thing or three about running a submarine. There is nothing we do here that they didn't do 60 years before us. There is a lot we can do that they couldn't because our game gives us too much information. There is a lot they could do that we can't because Ubi chose not to model important aspects of real submarines. And instead of saying "I'm taking a chance but the worst that could happen is I start a new career" your life would be in danger. There's no way to simulate that!

[sergei]

Originally Posted by razark

I'd say commanding a desktop would be a lot different from commanding actual people.

This is the big difference IMO.
Being responsible for the lives of your officers and crew.
If you screw up 60 good men die.
Imagine living with that sort of responsibility every day.
I don't think I could.

[Armistead]

Let's see, we know we couldn't so let's think of the things we SH4 players would say.

"Er, XO, where is the map that shows all the contacts and I need my external cam"

"Here comes a DD, hit the save button"

"That Jap escort is named the Ducimas, kill yourself"

"Where the heck is my Maxoptics, I can't see."

"Where is the stable option, I'm seasick."

"It's winter and all I have is this tee shirt."


or some noobie,

"Five DD's at 1000 yards, surface and man the guns.."

[CCIP]

Hey, those who play 100%, DiD don't do that

But seriously, I would have to acknowledge a bit from both perspectives here - yes, reality is nothing like a game. On the other hand, a game can get you a lot closer than one might assume. There's nothing natural about dozens of men stuck in a steel tube performing complicated maneuvers, and if a game can get you into a mindset where you have a good understanding of how the steel tube works and how best to use it and not use it, that is some serious training. Likewise, on the point of staying calm - you'd be surprised how much games can assist with that. Any high-stress situation is made easier when you are in the mindset where a) you know what is happening; b) your mind and body have a good idea of what needs to be done about it. A simulator definitely gets you at least halfway there, and while it certainly does not get you to the level of discipline required, it does get to a sort of starting point for it. The rest would come from drills in an actual sub. I mean let's face it, any real submariner also has their first real encounter in combat. And as an SH4 player, you know what? You already probably have a better understanding of what to expect from combat than they did.

Real submariners aren't made of different stuff than you are. The real difference is that they are drilled better, and that's not something that some training wouldn't fix in the average SH4 player. Most WWII submariners were average Joes too, and when they enlisted, most of them did not have nearly as much submarine knowledge as you might have. Now, noone would let a submarine nerd sail on a real submarine without training of course - so I think the real question should be "Would you enlist in submarines if you lived in WWII?" And I think the real answer is that guys with as much knowledge as you get from playing SH4 would make pretty darn good candidates.

[Deephunter]

Not SH related, but....Back when I was young and reckless, I took up flying, looking to get a PP license. One of the requirements is (was..??) to fly solo to 2 different airports and return to your "home" airport. I flew the first leg without any problems. The second leg required me to fly over an airport somewhat close to the Mexican border (Edinburg, TX). So I'm flying south, and not getting to Edinburg at the time I'd projected, and one thing I don't want to do is cross into Mexican airspace and then return to US airspace. So I'm getting a little "antsy"...
Then I remember I'd been "flying" instruments on my MS Flight Simulator, so I set up the VOR to intercept the Harlingen VOR (HRL bieng my "home" airport), and sure enough I begin to get its signal. Checking for the radial I need to home in on, I notice the Edinburg airport off in the distance. When I intercept the radial, Edinburg is right under my wings. I turn easterly and fly directly to the head of the runway in Harlingen...
I never told the instructor I "cheated", as this was supposed to be a strictly "visual" flight....

[Armistead]

Yea, sort of like the guy in a small plane, pilot had a heart attack. He was able to land the plane based on years of playing some plane simulator.

[I'm goin' down]

I suppose if I master a jet fighter sim, I could qualify for Top Gun? (If only they had not shut down the base!) Why would I waste the effort? I already have all the medals I need.

I nominate this for most ridiculous post of the year.

[tater]

Without their training, no, not at all the same.

That said, I think that there is one huge, real life benefit from simulation games. Now, if you read a book about submarines (I'm currently rereading the excellent War in the Boats), you actually understand what they are talking about. You "get" the situations you never would have before.

As a kid, my area of interest was WW2 aircraft, not subs. I read every book I could get my hands on, and loved them—but until I became competent in games like WarBirds, I had never really "gotten" the gist of it. After those games, I actually visualize what is going on in RL descriptions, and even see the pitfalls of some things telegraphed...

Simulations are a huge boon to understanding history intuitively.

[WernherVonTrapp]

I'm certainly no authority on the subject but, somehow, envisioning myself commanding a WWII sub strictly upon the premise of my experience with SHIV? Well, it's an entertaining thought at best. I realize that computerized simulations have permeated the various branches of today's military training but, somewhere in that process, the trainee has to operate the real thing before he is qualified. Usually, that actual operation spans more than just a few hours hands-on.
So, in my opinion, I'd have to offer up a definitive, "No".

[Armistead]

Yea, the amount of skills those sub men had were amazing. Even the cook had to know how to operate the majority of sub systems.

[Sailor Steve]

I spent eight weeks in boot camp just to learn how to be a baby sailor. I spent sixteen weeks in RM 'A' school just to learn how to be an apprentice beginner radioman.

During World War Two the US Navy rushed beginning officers through a three-month training course (hence the nickname "Ninety-Day Wonders"). After that if they went to on-the-job training if they joined the surface fleet, where they had to learn every junior position, serving as comm officers, ops officers, signal officers and engineering officers. After that they might become the XO of a destroyer escort, or of a supply ship, and after a year or more of that they might actually command something.

Potential submariners had to go to a special submarine school, where they not only had to master every system but also had to pass intense rigorous physical training, including spending a lot of time in the water learning to swim properly and to escape from a sunken submarine.

Then they would find themselves in a junior position on an actual sub, and it might take years, if ever, before they became a captain.

In every group there are young men who "have what it takes", and there are certainly some here. But no video game, however realistic they make it, is going to show who they are.