Dutch Muslim Group Fined for Holocaust Cartoon

[mookiemookie]

A Dutch Muslim group was fined 2,500 euros ($3,200) for publishing a cartoon which suggested the Holocaust was made up or exaggerated by Jews, a Dutch appeals court ruled on Thursday.

The court in the western city of Arnhem overruled an acquittal handed down by a Dutch lower court, saying the cartoon, published on the website of the Arab European League's (AEL) in 2006, was "unnecessarily hurtful."

"The court points out that the European Court of Human Rights, which considers freedom of speech of paramount importance and defends it thoroughly, makes an exception for the denial or trivialization of the Holocaust," the court said.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=11438032

What a crock. How am I supposed to condemn the Muslims getting all uppity about people drawing Mohammed cartoons when they get fined for drawing Holocaust cartoons.

That being said, I have nothing but respect for our Jewish friends, but it really is a case of what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

The Dutch group says it had no intention of disputing the Holocaust, but wanted instead to highlight what it described as double standards in free speech.

Touché.

[ETR3(SS)]

Interesting. Is this meant to be a message to Europe and/or the world that they can get away with anything and that it really isn't fair?

[Gerald]

to those who see it seriously!

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

What a crock. How am I supposed to condemn the Muslims getting all uppity about people drawing Mohammed cartoons when they get fined for drawing Holocaust cartoons.

The difference is that Muhammad is about religious beliefs, while the Holocaust isn't. If some Muslim group made a cartoon about Moses, there'd be no problem.

The Muhammad cartoons are about beliefs. They don't say anything derogatory about any person, only about their beliefs. Where would this world go if we couldn't counter and ridicule another person's beliefs? Half of all the scientific progress of the last centuries would not have happened and we'd still live in the Middle Ages.

The Holocaust cartoons are about a real-life event, with real people involved, with real deaths and real feelings of hurt.
If your dad got killed by the Nazi's, and I told you "Your dad is a scamp, that damn fraud only pretended to be killed to gain compassion, and you hypocrite just play along!", wouldn't you be angry and hurt as well? Denying the Holocaust is exactly that.

the western city of Arnhem

Wait - what?! Arnhem is about as far east as you can get
The city I grew up in, and lived until a year ago. Got good memories about it

[Platapus]

... suggested the Holocaust was made up or exaggerated

Well, which is it? There is a huge difference between someone who believes the holocaust is fake and someone who believes that some of the details of the holocaust may have been exaggerated.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Well, which is it? There is a huge difference between someone who believes the holocaust is fake and someone who believes that some of the details of the holocaust may have been exaggerated.

The cartoon shows two men in Auschwitz looking at several dead bodies. "I don't think they are Jews," says one man. The one man replies: "We have to get to the 6,000,000 (figure) somehow'. Six million Jews were killed during the Holocaust.

Not any worse content there than what the Internet Hate Machine puts out. They weren't denying its existence. On that note, the "I don't think they are Jews" part really is what stands out the most. And it's not entirely unfounded. Auschwitz was a concentration camp that also held a large populace of homosexuals, gypsies, Socialists and Communists (among other political dissidents), and captured soldiers as well (Russians and even a few Romanians). This fact should not be overlooked when discussing the Holocaust. Regrettably, it's only ever briefly discussed. You don't hear much about people like Heinz Alt, the Salomon family, Henri Landwirth, Lev Rebet, etc.

[tater]

I agree with the OP.

Freedom of expression exists, or it doesn't. Let everyone publish whatever they want.

Note that Europe has some odd laws in that respect post-WW2 which is likely why this special case happened. I personally still disagree, but that is European reality.

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm offended with being offended. Offenses need to stop.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Not any worse content there than what the Internet Hate Machine puts out. They weren't denying its existence. On that note, the "I don't think they are Jews" part really is what stands out the most. And it's not entirely unfounded. Auschwitz was a concentration camp that also held a large populace of homosexuals, gypsies, Socialists and Communists (among other political dissidents), and captured soldiers as well (Russians and even a few Romanians). This fact should not be overlooked when discussing the Holocaust. Regrettably, it's only ever briefly discussed. You don't hear much about people like Heinz Alt, the Salomon family, Henri Landwirth, Lev Rebet, etc.

But the non-jews in the camps are usually counted separately, and the six million number is commonly accepted as being for jews only. Including Soviet POWs, Romani (Gypsies), and other groups raised the total to anywhere from eleven million to twenty-one million.

Including Stalin's purges in Russia and Russian citizens killed by the Germans, and of course military losses, the total number of deaths in WW2 rises to an estimated fifty-five million people.

Pretty staggering when you think about it.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

and the six million number is commonly accepted as being for jews only.

But does that mean it is an accurate number or simply a popular number?

cf my signature

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by kranz

yup, that's exactly how it goes. in poland it is more politically correct just to say "seven millions" JEWS. no one gives a damn about their passports. polish jews, hungarian, dutch, french, english, german etc-nope, they were simply jews.

I remember a discussion I had with a couple of friends in school once about this. This Girl and Me had to explain to a friend how even though she was not a member of the Jewish faith as her parents were members of the 'Jewish Race' IE ethnic Jewish and she would be considered a Jew by the Nazis. We explained how that being Jewish is both an act of religious affiliation and or the state of being descended from a particular ethnic group by blood.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

But the non-jews in the camps are usually counted separately, and the six million number is commonly accepted as being for jews only. Including Soviet POWs, Romani (Gypsies), and other groups raised the total to anywhere from eleven million to twenty-one million.

Including Stalin's purges in Russia and Russian citizens killed by the Germans, and of course military losses, the total number of deaths in WW2 rises to an estimated fifty-five million people.

Pretty staggering when you think about it.

Also around half the total people killed were Soviet, over 26 million.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Wait - what?! Arnhem is about as far east as you can get
The city I grew up in, and lived until a year ago. Got good memories about it

My wife is from Arnhem.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Fish

My wife is from Arnhem.

Sorry to hear that, mate.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Sorry to hear that, mate.

Dowly now that was a comment too far...

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Dowly now that was a comment too far...