Sinking Times and Torp Expenditure

Walruss · 07-21-10, 11:40 AM

Hey guys, on my first (modded) patrol... I'm running BARF and historical u-boat mods (and a few others here and there but nothing else that might affect combat in this way)... I have played a SH$ and SH@ before, but a while ago and not quite so seriously... anyway I just encountered my first target on my first (modded) patrol - a Cimmaron class tanker worth 7,600 tons... fired a two-torp spread at ~1600 meters after sneaking up on it, and was rewarded by two hits, one far aft, almost at the props, and one at the bow, both possibly a little shallow... the whole on the bow was just visable above the waterline.... after waiting around 5-10 minutes she was still making headway (albeit only at 2 knots) and showed little signs of slowing. The seas were fairly calm, so I dropped a third torp, which she almost dodged (wound up taking it up the arse). 15 minutes later (and after some showey pyrotechnics) the bow finally disappeared below the surface of the water.

My question is this: Was the third torp excessive? ow long should you loiter and at what point do you decide the ship is still sea worthy enough to warrent another torp? or prefer deck gun use? I feel I may have wasted a torpedo on a stricken ship.... not sure

On with the patrol!

Walruss

voss · 07-21-10, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walruss

Hey guys, on my first (modded) patrol... I'm running BARF and historical u-boat mods (and a few others here and there but nothing else that might affect combat in this way)... I have played a SH$ and SH@ before, but a while ago and not quite so seriously... anyway I just encountered my first target on my first (modded) patrol - a Cimmaron class tanker worth 7,600 tons... fired a two-torp spread at ~1600 meters after sneaking up on it, and was rewarded by two hits, one far aft, almost at the props, and one at the bow, both possibly a little shallow... the whole on the bow was just visable above the waterline.... after waiting around 5-10 minutes she was still making headway (albeit only at 2 knots) and showed little signs of slowing. The seas were fairly calm, so I dropped a third torp, which she almost dodged (wound up taking it up the arse). 15 minutes later (and after some showey pyrotechnics) the bow finally disappeared below the surface of the water.

My question is this: Was the third torp excessive? ow long should you loiter and at what point do you decide the ship is still sea worthy enough to warrent another torp? or prefer deck gun use? I feel I may have wasted a torpedo on a stricken ship.... not sure

On with the patrol!

Walruss

Torpedoes are few and expensive. Deck gun ammunition is plentiful and cheap. If it is an unescorted merchant(s), and it's unlikely warships will get to you in the next few minutes, use the torpedoes to slow or stop the ship (at night time, I get in close and start using the deck gun right away), and then finish her off.

My 2 cents.

Arclight · 07-21-10, 02:34 PM

Just make sure your lonely merchant prey isn't armed. The T3 tankers tend to be armed, iirc.

I set up Cimmaron for 3-4 hits, so I wouldn't say 3 torpedoes is excessive.

Walruss · 07-21-10, 09:52 PM

ok, 2 torps into another lone cimmaron... and then I have a small convoy of about 9 freighters almost run into me in heavy seas and fog... last of my torps and all my deck gun ammo later (had to chace them for a day after the torps ran out so i could USE the deck gun), and the last of the convoy disappears beneath the north sea.

One point of note: It sseems ships don't seem to display signs of sinking terribly well.... I noticed that even with two torp hits, in heavy seas, a freighter doesn't seem to list much at all, and goes down all at once (ie they seem to sink too quickly)... I would have thought damage like that would cause it to list very quickly, and slowly roll over say in about... 20 mins?

The ships also seem to be coated in paper: they catch fire way too quickly.

comments? Mod combinations? (I am running BARF....)

THE_MASK · 07-21-10, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walruss

ok, 2 torps into another lone cimmaron... and then I have a small convoy of about 9 freighters almost run into me in heavy seas and fog... last of my torps and all my deck gun ammo later (had to chace them for a day after the torps ran out so i could USE the deck gun), and the last of the convoy disappears beneath the north sea.

One point of note: It sseems ships don't seem to display signs of sinking terribly well.... I noticed that even with two torp hits, in heavy seas, a freighter doesn't seem to list much at all, and goes down all at once (ie they seem to sink too quickly)... I would have thought damage like that would cause it to list very quickly, and slowly roll over say in about... 20 mins?

The ships also seem to be coated in paper: they catch fire way too quickly.

comments? Mod combinations? (I am running BARF....)

Give us your mod list , available by going into JSGME and clicking on tasks , export activated mods to text file , then copy and paste them here .

Walruss · 07-21-10, 10:41 PM

BRF 1.3 full
IRAI_0_0_11
NEWUIs_TDC_3_5_1
+ colouredshippingchat or above
Sub_exhaust_1_0_4
NewUIs_TDC_3_5_1_jimimadrids_map_tools
Sobers base wave
U-boat Historical Specs

that's the lot

Arclight · 07-22-10, 07:11 AM

I'd like to point out tankers are notoriously hard to sink. They're designed to carry liquids, after all.

Still, with 2-3 hits on 1 side, she should be listing to a point where water is spilling onto the decks.

Walruss · 07-22-10, 09:26 AM

did some shot tests on your shooting range arc, and they do.... but no-where near what I'd thought... they do go down though, and better than I thought... I think I was just a little impatient.... Now if only there was a way of making it so they ONLY sink from floating or critical hits...

EDIT: and by floating I mean of course flooding :P

Arclight · 07-22-10, 09:49 AM

One thing to try is the HP tweak that goes along BRF. It's intended for just that: allow another hit and have the ship sink from flooding, instead of depleting hull HP and triggering that "spectacular" fireworks display.

One possibility is to take the RFB aproach; greatly increase HP so you have to sink by flooding. I left the HP system in so you wouldn't get into a situation where a ship soaks up 5-6 torpedoes, where 3 would have been enough with proper placement. It's there as a fallback mechanism, considering I'm not shooting for absolute realism, trying to strike a balance between realism and gameplay (that doesn't frustrate you to the point of quitting the game).

As always, feedback is welcome, here or in it's own thread.

Walruss · 07-22-10, 09:58 AM

Oh, I like BARF, I thought the hp tweak was included in the full....? Though It would be nice if it were possible to have some ships that do sink after an hour or two... not sure... I did like the RFB system, I thought even though some hits would take forever to sink a ship, if you were in that much of a hurry then you could always sink another fish into it... and I dislike being able to pound away with a deck gun until it explodes (which i often do accidentally, while trying to sink her a tad quicker without the expenditure of another torp) But very good work on the mod

Arclight · 07-22-10, 10:11 AM

Kept the HP tweak seperate as a module, expecting other mods to change the ships' .zon files at some point. The difference between the "full" and "light" version is strictly sinking times.

I might split the HP tweak into a "regular" and "hardcore" version, with the latter increasing the HP to such an extent that you are forced to sink by flooding. Don't think it would be that popular, but it might interest the realism fans.

Thank you for the compliment, and the feedback. Good point on triggering the pyrotechnics while shelling; had only considered torpedo damage to be honest.

Walruss · 07-22-10, 10:35 AM

yeah, it's an issue for a smaller ship like a liberty where a second torpedo might not be nessisary... and I would LOVE a hardcore hp tweak

How do HP tweaks work in terms of critical locations ie fuel bunkers or a tankers cargo? IE if I land a HE shell into a tanker, and it happens to hit something full of oil, will i still get a fire that will eventually destroy the ship?

I realise this is a complex issue in terms of coding, no pressure

Arclight · 07-22-10, 11:10 AM

Actually, it's pretty straight forward. I'm nowhere near as competent as most other modders.

Thought I had it figured out, not so sure now; each compartment has several attributes, including one that sets it as a possible critical hit location, one that sets percentage chance of critical hit, and one that sets a damage multiplier.

I'm not sure about the multiplier: does it always come into play, or just on critical hits?

If only at critical hits, you would just have to increase that multiplier to make the critical hit powerfull enough to deplete all the HP. Otherwise it might be a little trickier to rebalance it.

(if no multiplier is associated with critical hits, you could assume that a critical will always destroy the ship, regardless of HP)

Some testing will turn up the answer soon enough. For once, those HP and flooding bars are actually desirable.

07-21-10, 11:40 AM	#1
Walruss Soundman Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 144 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	Sinking Times and Torp Expenditure Hey guys, on my first (modded) patrol... I'm running BARF and historical u-boat mods (and a few others here and there but nothing else that might affect combat in this way)... I have played a SH$ and SH@ before, but a while ago and not quite so seriously... anyway I just encountered my first target on my first (modded) patrol - a Cimmaron class tanker worth 7,600 tons... fired a two-torp spread at ~1600 meters after sneaking up on it, and was rewarded by two hits, one far aft, almost at the props, and one at the bow, both possibly a little shallow... the whole on the bow was just visable above the waterline.... after waiting around 5-10 minutes she was still making headway (albeit only at 2 knots) and showed little signs of slowing. The seas were fairly calm, so I dropped a third torp, which she almost dodged (wound up taking it up the arse). 15 minutes later (and after some showey pyrotechnics) the bow finally disappeared below the surface of the water. My question is this: Was the third torp excessive? ow long should you loiter and at what point do you decide the ship is still sea worthy enough to warrent another torp? or prefer deck gun use? I feel I may have wasted a torpedo on a stricken ship.... not sure On with the patrol! Walruss

07-21-10, 02:34 PM	#3
Arclight Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Land of windmills, tulips, wooden shoes and cheese. Lots of cheese. Posts: 8,467 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 10	Just make sure your lonely merchant prey isn't armed. The T3 tankers tend to be armed, iirc. I set up Cimmaron for 3-4 hits, so I wouldn't say 3 torpedoes is excessive. __________________ Contritium praecedit superbia.

07-22-10, 07:11 AM	#7
Arclight Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Land of windmills, tulips, wooden shoes and cheese. Lots of cheese. Posts: 8,467 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 10	I'd like to point out tankers are notoriously hard to sink. They're designed to carry liquids, after all. Still, with 2-3 hits on 1 side, she should be listing to a point where water is spilling onto the decks. __________________ Contritium praecedit superbia.

07-22-10, 09:49 AM	#9
Arclight Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Land of windmills, tulips, wooden shoes and cheese. Lots of cheese. Posts: 8,467 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 10	One thing to try is the HP tweak that goes along BRF. It's intended for just that: allow another hit and have the ship sink from flooding, instead of depleting hull HP and triggering that "spectacular" fireworks display. One possibility is to take the RFB aproach; greatly increase HP so you have to sink by flooding. I left the HP system in so you wouldn't get into a situation where a ship soaks up 5-6 torpedoes, where 3 would have been enough with proper placement. It's there as a fallback mechanism, considering I'm not shooting for absolute realism, trying to strike a balance between realism and gameplay (that doesn't frustrate you to the point of quitting the game). As always, feedback is welcome, here or in it's own thread. __________________ Contritium praecedit superbia.

07-22-10, 10:11 AM	#11
Arclight Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Land of windmills, tulips, wooden shoes and cheese. Lots of cheese. Posts: 8,467 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 10	Kept the HP tweak seperate as a module, expecting other mods to change the ships' .zon files at some point. The difference between the "full" and "light" version is strictly sinking times. I might split the HP tweak into a "regular" and "hardcore" version, with the latter increasing the HP to such an extent that you are forced to sink by flooding. Don't think it would be that popular, but it might interest the realism fans. Thank you for the compliment, and the feedback. Good point on triggering the pyrotechnics while shelling; had only considered torpedo damage to be honest. __________________ Contritium praecedit superbia.

07-21-10, 09:52 PM	#4
Walruss Soundman Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 144 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	ok, 2 torps into another lone cimmaron... and then I have a small convoy of about 9 freighters almost run into me in heavy seas and fog... last of my torps and all my deck gun ammo later (had to chace them for a day after the torps ran out so i could USE the deck gun), and the last of the convoy disappears beneath the north sea. One point of note: It sseems ships don't seem to display signs of sinking terribly well.... I noticed that even with two torp hits, in heavy seas, a freighter doesn't seem to list much at all, and goes down all at once (ie they seem to sink too quickly)... I would have thought damage like that would cause it to list very quickly, and slowly roll over say in about... 20 mins? The ships also seem to be coated in paper: they catch fire way too quickly. comments? Mod combinations? (I am running BARF....)

07-21-10, 10:41 PM	#6
Walruss Soundman Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 144 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	BRF 1.3 full IRAI_0_0_11 NEWUIs_TDC_3_5_1 + colouredshippingchat or above Sub_exhaust_1_0_4 NewUIs_TDC_3_5_1_jimimadrids_map_tools Sobers base wave U-boat Historical Specs that's the lot

07-22-10, 09:26 AM	#8
Walruss Soundman Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 144 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	did some shot tests on your shooting range arc, and they do.... but no-where near what I'd thought... they do go down though, and better than I thought... I think I was just a little impatient.... Now if only there was a way of making it so they ONLY sink from floating or critical hits... EDIT: and by floating I mean of course flooding :P

07-22-10, 09:58 AM	#10
Walruss Soundman Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 144 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	Oh, I like BARF, I thought the hp tweak was included in the full....? Though It would be nice if it were possible to have some ships that do sink after an hour or two... not sure... I did like the RFB system, I thought even though some hits would take forever to sink a ship, if you were in that much of a hurry then you could always sink another fish into it... and I dislike being able to pound away with a deck gun until it explodes (which i often do accidentally, while trying to sink her a tad quicker without the expenditure of another torp) But very good work on the mod

07-22-10, 10:35 AM	#12
Walruss Soundman Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 144 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	yeah, it's an issue for a smaller ship like a liberty where a second torpedo might not be nessisary... and I would LOVE a hardcore hp tweak How do HP tweaks work in terms of critical locations ie fuel bunkers or a tankers cargo? IE if I land a HE shell into a tanker, and it happens to hit something full of oil, will i still get a fire that will eventually destroy the ship? I realise this is a complex issue in terms of coding, no pressure

07-22-10, 11:10 AM	#13
Arclight Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Land of windmills, tulips, wooden shoes and cheese. Lots of cheese. Posts: 8,467 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 10	Actually, it's pretty straight forward. I'm nowhere near as competent as most other modders. Thought I had it figured out, not so sure now; each compartment has several attributes, including one that sets it as a possible critical hit location, one that sets percentage chance of critical hit, and one that sets a damage multiplier. I'm not sure about the multiplier: does it always come into play, or just on critical hits? If only at critical hits, you would just have to increase that multiplier to make the critical hit powerfull enough to deplete all the HP. Otherwise it might be a little trickier to rebalance it. (if no multiplier is associated with critical hits, you could assume that a critical will always destroy the ship, regardless of HP) Some testing will turn up the answer soon enough. For once, those HP and flooding bars are actually desirable. __________________ Contritium praecedit superbia.