It begins..

[Torvald Von Mansee]

http://www.azfamily.com/video/featur...-91769419.html

[Torvald Von Mansee]

"A representative at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) returned 3TV’s calls after researching the incident and she said this was standard operating procedure."

It'll be cute when the ACLU does a FOIA request on the data supposedly backing that up and prove it untrue.

[GoldenRivet]

tough.

not illegal?

nothing to hide?

then whats the problem?

I would normally be against this sort of thing, but the states have been fighting violent border crime with BOTH hands tied behind their backs.

My hat is off to Arizona... she took a stand against two things

1. Our failure of a federal government

2. violent border state crimes

[AVGWarhawk]

PHOENIX – A Valley man says he was pulled over Wednesday morning and questioned when he arrived at a weigh station for his commercial vehicle along Val Vista and the 202 freeway.

He was at a weigh station....commerical driver with commercial drivers license. Whats the problem? He was not pulled over for the fun of it. The weigh station is open for business...he is a truck driver. He must enter for inspection.

He tells 3TV, “I don't think it's correct, if I have to take my birth certificate with me all the time.”

He needs to carry a Medical Cert card and drivers license as well as proof of insurance. Why not add a birth certificate as part of paperwork required for driving a commercial vehicle?

Abdon was told he did not have enough paperwork on him when he pulled into a weigh station to have his commercial truck checked. He provided his commercial driver’s license and a social security number but ended up handcuffed.

The arrest does not look warranted to me. Two forms of ID should have been enough. However I do not know the SOP for this....see below:

A representative at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) returned 3TV’s calls after researching the incident and she said this was standard operating procedure.
The agents needed to verify Abdon was in the country legally and it is not uncommon to ask for someone's birth certificate. She also said this has nothing to do with the proposed bill or racial profiling.

[AngusJS]

Come on! Who leaves home without their birth certificate? I have mine folded up in my wallet. What's the big deal?

What happens when you're from a different state, and the cop who stops you doesn't trust your certificate?

Conservatives scream about communism constantly, yet now they support Soviet-style document checks?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by AngusJS

Come on! Who leaves home without their birth certificate? I have mine folded up in my wallet. What's the big deal?

What happens when you're from a different state, and the cop who stops you doesn't trust your certificate?

Conservatives scream about communism constantly yet now they support Soviet-style document checks?

I happen to agree that the birth cert request was a bit much. I do not carry mine for any reason. I question the SOP as stated by the police in AZ. I'm sure that his commerical license is enough to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that he is a citizen. Commercial licenses are not just handed out to anyone.

[Turbografx]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

tough.

not illegal?

nothing to hide?

then whats the problem?

The problem is harassment based on racial profiling. The problem is placing the burden of proof on the accused to prove that he is a citizen.

I take it you are a white male like myself?

What if our immigration problem was with Ireland, like in the 19th century. To crack down on this I'll just detain people who I "reasonably suspect" of being illegal Irish immigrants (all whites, red-heads, drunks, people who talk funny) unless they have papers to prove otherwise.
Walking your dog without papers? Tough. Bicycled down to the drugstore without papers? Tough. Out minding you own god-damned business without papers? Tough.

As a lawful citizen, don't you think you should be able to live your life and go about your business without being unreasonably detained because of your physical appearance? I certainly do. I think that kind of **** would get old, fast.

[AVGWarhawk]

The problem is placing the burden of proof on the accused to prove that he is a citizen

The burden of proof is laid at our feet every day. Operate a motor vehicle in the state of MD and it is wise to have your drivers license, proof of insurance, current registration and a copy of the emission certificate. Any of these missing...tough luck. Perhaps a new nationwide law should be having a copy of your birth cert is required. I just add it to my other important paperwork.

[Molon Labe]

I'm confused.

I thought the scandal was all about the new Arizona law.

But these were federal ICE agents. Nothing to do with the new law.

What is the relevance here?

[tater]

Showing the CDL would ideally be enough. The problem, of course, is that there are states in the US—like the State next door to Arizona called "New Mexico" that give DLs to illegals!

So the entirely legit requirement to see a DL should be proof of citizenship, but it's NOT. Heck, voter registration uses the DL.

So force everyone to go get a new DL with their birth certificate, passport, etc, then the DL can be used as proper ID as it should be. PLaces like here in NM should get no federal money if they allow illegal aliens to get a DL in the first place.

[AVGWarhawk]

Exacty tater. There needs to be a countrywide law that these items need to be carried with you. It is no different than the DL or SS card.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

tough.

not illegal?

nothing to hide?

then whats the problem?

I would normally be against this sort of thing, but the states have been fighting violent border crime with BOTH hands tied behind their backs.

My hat is off to Arizona... she took a stand against two things

1. Our failure of a federal government

2. violent border state crimes

Would you like it if middle-aged white men were routinely stopped by police, handcuffed, etc?

EDIT: adding on - beaten, having your car go into forfeiture, etc?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

Would you like it if middle-aged white men were routinely stopped by police, handcuffed, etc?

EDIT: adding on - beaten, having your car go into forfeiture, etc?

Can you show me the 'routinely'? Why at the airport anyone can get the body cavity search by security and no one says a thing?

[tater]

A driver's license should be enough. This would require forcing DL applicants to prove citizenship. I'm fine with this. Require every single DL to be replaced next year, and require proof of citizenship to do so.

Anyone arrested without a DL should face jail and a massive penalty. They should also be investigated WRT citizenship and deported.

Didn't Muhammad Atta get a traffic ticket before 911? One of them did.

BTW, on the "path to citizenship" ANY crime should cancel your progress towards that, AND get you deported, AND result in you never being allowed to reapply. ANY crime, even jaywalking, running a red light, whatever. Be a model would-be citizen or GTFO.

Again, along with a large increase in the allowed number of immigrants or workers from Mexico. No amnesty, though. All 12 million here would need to LEAVE, then come back, or forever live in the shadows.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

I'm confused.

I thought the scandal was all about the new Arizona law.

But these were federal ICE agents. Nothing to do with the new law.

What is the relevance here?

...

Trig, is that you?