Manual Plotting

With the discussion about SHV being practically monopolised by the controversial DRM, I believe there are some potential issues with the new walk-around system, that may have gone unnoticed. Specifically the inability to move between the attack scope/UZO and the plot quickly.

To clarify matters: The way I personally conduct an attack in SH3-4, is by taking bearing and distance readings every 3m15s and subsequently plotting them on the navigational chart. I continue this until I have 3-6 readings, conditional on the apparent quality of the solution, and then I use them to estimate target course and speed. Essentially, I employ the methods described in the excellent Wazoo's Tutorial with the one exception, that I'm using purely mathematical calculations to compute AoB.

Now, in order to conduct an attack in this manner, one must be able to move quickly from the attack scope or the UZO to the plot, so as to be able to mark the location of the submarine, before it strays too far from the point it was in, when you took the reading.

My question to those who have had the opportunity to try SHV is thus the following:
A). Is there a shortcut to take you immediately from the attack scope/UZO to the plot and
B). In keeping with the captain-simulator direction, that SHV is taking, is it possible to have one of the AI crewmembers make the plot, while you stay on the conning tower or the bridge. i.e. An interface through which you can enter bearing and distance, causing the AI to automatically draw the respective lines on the plot.

[TarJak]

Greate questions well thought out and expressed. Another outstanding question I'd like answered. The ability to move between the map view and the scope is critical to my way of shooting also.

[ichso]

I think it is more the other way around from what you proposed.

That not a crew member is doing the plotting while you are at the periscope (that would be cool though) but rather that you can fix a target and frequently ask about relative bearing and estimated distance and do the plotting yourself.
I think that wouldn't be out-of-role either that the captain mans the map charts and some WO mans the periscope/conning tower.

At least this is what I would assume from what the older SH titles gave us. But I would be pleasantly surprised if they offered us something new here, too.

[TarJak]

From the looks of this hot keying to a control station is out: http://www.simhq.com/_naval/naval_035a.html

It also means that you can’t just teleport from one section of the sub to another. Keyboard commands are much more limited than in Silent Hunter 3 and Silent Hunter 4. You are the captain of the boat and in the game you should walk around and interact with the crew. It also means you might have to run, and I mean run, back to the bridge to take a look through the periscope or to give orders.

Originally Posted by TarJak

Greate questions well thought out and expressed.

Cheers!

Originally Posted by ichso

I think it is more the other way around from what you proposed.

That not a crew member is doing the plotting while you are at the periscope (that would be cool though) but rather that you can fix a target and frequently ask about relative bearing and estimated distance and do the plotting yourself.
I think that wouldn't be out-of-role either that the captain mans the map charts and some WO mans the periscope/conning tower.

At least this is what I would assume from what the older SH titles gave us. But I would be pleasantly surprised if they offered us something new here, too.

Well, if memory serves, standing procedure for U-boot attacks was for the captain to man the attack scope and the XO to handle the plot, while conducting a submerged attack, and the other way around, when conducting a surface attack (XO manned the UZO and the captain stayed below). However, it is my understanding, that this procedure was modified and deviated from according to every captain's individual preferences.

As far as shortcuts are concerned, truth be told, I won't really mind, if I can't teleport around, as long as option B). from my original post exists (or at least the ability to mod it. It's been mentioned that the UI is now modable using Python. Does that include the plot? And to what extent?).

[Hitman]

standing procedure for U-boot attacks was for the captain to man the attack scope and the XO to handle the plot, while conducting a submerged attack, and the other way around, when conducting a surface attack (XO manned the UZO and the captain stayed below)

No. From my research, it worked like this:

Submerged attack: Captain at the scope, officer operating the TDC. Captain would provide estimates of range, AOB, speed from the scope, which the operator would feed into the TDC. Only rarely did the captain also ask the navigator to keep a plot. Values for speed, range and course were estimated by naked eye or using the periscope aids (reticle, fixed line, AOB finder sometimes)

Surfaced night attack: IWO provided estimates of range, AOB, speed from the UZO, which the operator would feed into the TDC. Captain was at the bridge, conning the uboat and being aware of the tactical situation. Again values were generally estimated, and steering paralell course and speed was the preferred method of getting enemy's course and speed.

The only time when plotting was conducted is when doing the high speed end around on surface, with only tip of the masts of enemy ship visible. The uboat tried to keep a constant distance from the enemy (Move away when masts grow, go closer when masts dissapear) and overtake it. The navigator combined own ship motion with bearings provided by the captain, and made his estimate of enemy speed and course.

@Hitman: Thanks for the info. Personally, I find the mathematical precision of the plot more appealing, than using visual estimates, but it's quite interesting to know how things really worked at the time.

[Frederf]

Originally Posted by Thomas Kenobi

Specifically the inability to move between the attack scope/UZO and the plot quickly...plotting them on the navigational chart.

Now, in order to conduct an attack in this manner, one must be able to move quickly from the attack scope or the UZO to the plot

Do you mean quickly or instantly? If the attack plot and the periscope are both in the conning tower then they must be a very short walk apart. While this is how I do attacks in SH3 too, it would be better if the crew assisted in some ways. I would happily readjust my methods away from old habits to achieve a more historical or team-oriented new method.

Is there a shortcut to take you immediately from the attack scope/UZO to the plot?

I think any shortcut keys will direct your character to walk to the destination without the labor of manually WASD'ing there yourself but in the same amount of time.

In keeping with the captain-simulator direction, that SHV is taking, is it possible to have one of the AI crew members make the plot, while you stay on the conning tower or the bridge. i.e. An interface through which you can enter bearing and distance, causing the AI to automatically draw the respective lines on the plot.

This would be my ideal, having AI crew plotting from player input. Even if close range attacks were done by estimated values, at least I could plot the enemy with the crew's help in end-arounds.

I just got some information over at SimHQ forums. It would seem, that the resizeable map in the attack scope screen includes all the usual plotting tools (ruler/protractor/compass). Thus we can create a plot without jumping screens. I suspect this means we won't be able to order a crewman to do the job for us, but overall it should work better than SH3.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...s/2960827.html


@Frederf: How fast you need to act depends on how quickly your U-boot is moving. e.g. at 6-9kt you have considerably more leeway than at 14-17kt
As for the plot, I believe that it is located not on the conning tower, but rather in the command room below. Therefore, if we had to travel between the two rooms, it would be wasteful in terms of time and rather tedious.

About the shortcuts, that would actually be a very good idea to supplement the interface -having the captain automatically walk to a certain station-, but I doubt it's there. We would have heard something about it by now.

[msalama]

I would happily readjust my methods away from old habits to achieve a more historical or team-oriented new method.

Me too, provided there's some realistic randomness involved. But if the WeO still gives us a perfect solution every time, then absolutely nooooo way whatsoever

[Frederf]

Originally Posted by Thomas Kenobi

I just got some information over at SimHQ forums. It would seem, that the resizeable map in the attack scope screen includes all the usual plotting tools (ruler/protractor/compass). Thus we can create a plot without jumping screens. I suspect this means we won't be able to order a crewman to do the job for us, but overall it should work better than SH3.

Ew, one man band again playing that lonely tune. It could be worse?

As for the plot, I believe that it is located not on the conning tower, but rather in the command room below. Therefore, if we had to travel between the two rooms, it would be wasteful in terms of time and rather tedious.

Not the navigation charts, the attack plot. No real captain draws his attacks on his world-wide charts they use blank pieces of paper. The only reason we Silent Hunter players used the nav. charts is that was the only map we could draw on. I think (don't know) the attack plot would be up with the rest of the targeting party.

About the shortcuts, that would actually be a very good idea to supplement the interface -having the captain automatically walk to a certain station-, but I doubt it's there. We would have heard something about it by now.

Yeah I stole the idea from some preview people who suggested it should be added. They call it "auto walk."

Originally Posted by Frederf

Ew, one man band again playing that lonely tune. It could be worse?

True, but at least it's a more effective one man band. One aspect of simulators, that really bugs me, is being forced to blitz around in order to handle tasks, that would normally be handled by other crewmembers. Whether we're talking about WWII subs or modern airliners, that unfortunate aspect usually makes its presence.

Originally Posted by Frederf

Not the navigation charts, the attack plot. No real captain draws his attacks on his world-wide charts they use blank pieces of paper. The only reason we Silent Hunter players used the nav. charts is that was the only map we could draw on. I think (don't know) the attack plot would be up with the rest of the targeting party.

I know. That's what I was talking about as well. I don't think the conning tower has room for a table to draw a plot on, while there is a table large enough in the navigator's station. Plus I haven't seen a table in any screens or videos featuring the conning tower.

Originally Posted by Frederf

Yeah I stole the idea from some preview people who suggested it should be added. They call it "auto walk."

Well, I second it.

[jerm138]

I'd be happy with either one of these solutions:

• A capable crew that can do the plotting for you when you call out range and bearing (preferred solution)
• If I have to be a one-man-band, I want the ability to 'teleport' to different stations, even if I have to take a realism hit.

I'm not a big fan of having the attack map and periscope together as a solution to this problem. For one, when you're looking through the scope, that's ALL you should be able to see. Also, the scope should be down if you're going to be off doing other tasks, like plotting. Why leave it up and risk detection?

[makman94]

here is how the manual plotting should be done :

Manual Plot

[Frederf]

Is there any document that is the German U-boat equivalent to this USN manual? It would be cool to see at least what the textbook method of conducting an attack was in terms of people, duties, positions, etc.

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/attack/index.htm#chap04