Merchant Strength

Captain Birdseye · 12-08-09, 04:40 PM

Hi guys,

Is it me, or do merchants seem to have too many "hitpoints"?

In the war it was well documented for ships to go down with a single torpedo, yet some in SHIII can withstand three!

Is it just the way i'm firing?

Weiss Pinguin · 12-08-09, 04:56 PM

What mods are you using? (If any) Most ships can and do go down with 1 torpedo, but it depends on how long you're willing to wait. I've spent hours waiting for a single ship to sink, and most eventually go under.

Also, are you going for keel shots or just pumping torpedoes into the side? A single shot under the keel can instantly snap even the larger ships in half, depending on where you aim. Or, if you're more patient and have excellent timing/luck, a single torpedo aimed at the front of the ship (Right on the bow) will cause massive flooding in the forward areas, as the ship's momentum keeps the water flowing in.

Captain Birdseye · 12-08-09, 06:31 PM

Hi Mr Pinguin.

GWX 3.0 Super Dooper Captain Birdseye meets Pugwash Edition
GWX - Enhanced Damage Effects
GWX - Integrated Orders
GWX - No Medals on Crew
GWX - Alternative Load Screen
GWX - Vondos Ships
Thomsens Ships 4.1
EDE-LRT 2.04 full patch
Integrated Orders LRT 2.04 Full Patch
Das Boot Clothes
Bearded Faces
Flags
DBSM for SH3

Those are my mods.

I was in a convoy attack today and it took three torps to sink a medium tanker. I used 1 magnetic smack bang under the centre of the ship, and two impact pistols. After reading Iron Coffins I scratched my head and thought "hmm something isn't right here".

At least Iron Coffins has inspired me to get a little closer on the surface and not hide under the water!

Weiss Pinguin · 12-08-09, 07:15 PM

Does this happen with merchants and freighters as well? In my experience tankers can soak up 3-4 torpedoes before sinking. Not always, but sometimes.

Captain Birdseye · 12-08-09, 07:31 PM

With more common freighters, I find it takes 2 torps to sink her.

Perhaps it's time to stop aiming bang on centre of the vessel and aim other places?

Sailor Steve · 12-08-09, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Birdseye

In the war it was well documented for ships to go down with a single torpedo

Take a walk through here http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/listing.php

You'll find that what you say was 'well documented' is actually no such thing. Most ships took at least two, even some of the very small ones. There were ocassions where a ship loaded with steel sank within seconds, and if you peruse the American records you'll find one instance of a Japanese freighter taking 6 torpedoes and 8 hours to sink. There was another Japanese ship that broke in half, the stern sank, and the bow was towed to safety.

As far as hitpoints, one of the complaints about stock SH3 was that the hitpoint system resulted in too many instant sinkings. The major supermods change that so ships flood, and take time to sink. That might also be your problem - sometimes a ship in NYGM or GWX can take hours to sink...but sink they eventually do. Sometimes.

Lt.Fillipidis · 12-08-09, 08:13 PM

Try aiming 1 meter below the keep depth, just in front of the engines.
Otherwise, do what Weiss Penguin says. Fire one torpedo at the edge of the bow. In some extraordinary occasions, i managed to line up my boat to the merchant's course and fire one torpedo under the keel, at the edge of the stern. Thats a certain sink.

Dissaray · 12-08-09, 08:36 PM

I know for war ships if you put yoru eels in under their guns you can cook off the magazines. That makes them sink in a hurry, not to mention it is a great light show at night. I don't know if the armed cargo ships have a magazine to hit or where it might be if they do though.

For merchants and freighters I find one torpido sufficant most of the time, though ocasionaly I will have to pump a second into them. If after I feel the ship has taken enuf of my torpidos and still won't sink I will go to the tops and finish it wit the deck gun, weather and escort status permiting. One torpido under the keel and a hand full of deck gun rounds in below the water line and most will submit. One thing to make sure of is that your torpidos don't hit on top of eachother, the more holes you put in the ship the faster it will go down so aiming at diferant parts of the ship is a big pluss. Shots to the bow seem particularly effective as noted befor; when the bow starts to drop lower into the water the engens seem to push the ship down faster; a crash dive for them if you will.

RoaldLarsen · 12-09-09, 12:09 AM

Yes, it is true that many (most?) ships needed more than a single torpedo hit to sink, but I think that the larger ships in SH3 are not quite vulnerable enough.

A look through the 'A's in the uboat.net list of victims indicates to me that a larger portion ships in the 5,000 to 8,000 ton size range went down after only one torpedo hit than what I see in the game. Tankers in the game seem especially invulnerable.

Also, 2cm flak has been used to finish off steel ships in real life, but that is not possible in SH3.

OTOH, SH3 deck gun shells seem too destructive.

Sailor Steve · 12-09-09, 01:16 AM

Stock SH3: Ships are too easy to sink.

Supermods: Ships are too hard to sink.

Bottom Line: There's no real in-between. Either it goes too far one way or it goes too far the other. All we can really do is live with whichever one seems better to us and hope SH5 is better.

Lt.Fillipidis · 12-09-09, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoaldLarsen

Yes, it is true that many (most?) ships needed more than a single torpedo hit to sink, but I think that the larger ships in SH3 are not quite vulnerable enough.

A look through the 'A's in the uboat.net list of victims indicates to me that a larger portion ships in the 5,000 to 8,000 ton size range went down after only one torpedo hit than what I see in the game. Tankers in the game seem especially invulnerable.

Also, 2cm flak has been used to finish off steel ships in real life, but that is not possible in SH3.

OTOH, SH3 deck gun shells seem too destructive.

Am I the only one who sinks large tankers with a single torpedo and finishes off ships with the 2cm flak gun?

(Edit: Those ships usually blow up in a massive explosion. So the relativelly high TC and the short distance i am so i can shoot them acuratelly, usually end up with a uboat sink or uncontrollable flooding and destroyed stuff. Even a trawler can do that.

Plus, i usually use manual targeting (cheater!) to sink convoy escorts. Their aim at 3-5km is just waaaaay off. Since they come one at a time, its a piece of a piece of cake...

danlisa · 12-09-09, 07:28 AM

Every ship in GWX will sink with 1 torpedo hit. That's if you know where to hit them.

Other than that, a single torpedo will usually result in enough flooding to sink any vessel. Again, you need to know where to best cause this flooding.

Either way, there are many cases where ships sank after one torp but there are also many cases where ships remained afloat and returned to port for repairs following multiple hits.

Ping Panther · 12-09-09, 11:58 AM

Trawlers are by far the most aggravating thing to take down. It must be the low weight displacement. They are hardly worth the half-dozen eels I pump into them!

psykopatsak · 12-09-09, 03:25 PM

ususally a tanker will be blown sky high by one torp straight in the side for me.

otherwise, alot of ships take two or more torps to go down for me. then again, i use manual targeting with the OLC mod, so im glad i can hit the ships even (as im in late '44)

Kapt Z · 12-10-09, 02:08 PM

Anything larger than a coastal freighter or small merchantman get's two fish. Sometimes one is actually enough, but I prefer to use two just for good measure(especially in convoy attacks).

As Sailor Steve said, try the Uboat.net site for lots of info on how slow and how fast some ships went down.

These poor guys never had a chance-

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/2433.html

12-08-09, 04:40 PM	#1
Captain Birdseye Watch Officer Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sat behind my desk at BdU tapping away on my Enigma machine. Posts: 339 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Merchant Strength Hi guys, Is it me, or do merchants seem to have too many "hitpoints"? In the war it was well documented for ships to go down with a single torpedo, yet some in SHIII can withstand three! Is it just the way i'm firing?

12-08-09, 04:56 PM	#2
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	What mods are you using? (If any) Most ships can and do go down with 1 torpedo, but it depends on how long you're willing to wait. I've spent hours waiting for a single ship to sink, and most eventually go under. Also, are you going for keel shots or just pumping torpedoes into the side? A single shot under the keel can instantly snap even the larger ships in half, depending on where you aim. Or, if you're more patient and have excellent timing/luck, a single torpedo aimed at the front of the ship (Right on the bow) will cause massive flooding in the forward areas, as the ship's momentum keeps the water flowing in. __________________

12-08-09, 07:15 PM	#4
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	Does this happen with merchants and freighters as well? In my experience tankers can soak up 3-4 torpedoes before sinking. Not always, but sometimes. __________________

12-09-09, 12:09 AM	#9
RoaldLarsen Weps Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Control Room Posts: 355 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Yes, it is true that many (most?) ships needed more than a single torpedo hit to sink, but I think that the larger ships in SH3 are not quite vulnerable enough. A look through the 'A's in the uboat.net list of victims indicates to me that a larger portion ships in the 5,000 to 8,000 ton size range went down after only one torpedo hit than what I see in the game. Tankers in the game seem especially invulnerable. Also, 2cm flak has been used to finish off steel ships in real life, but that is not possible in SH3. OTOH, SH3 deck gun shells seem too destructive. __________________ 100% realism, DiD Harbor Traffic 1.47(incl. RUB) Using SH3 Commander to implement many custom realism tweaks Covered 1939-1945; now restarting in 1939 again. Completed 39 careers, 210 war patrols, 4.7Mt sunk, 19 subs lost

12-09-09, 01:16 AM	#10
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Stock SH3: Ships are too easy to sink. Supermods: Ships are too hard to sink. Bottom Line: There's no real in-between. Either it goes too far one way or it goes too far the other. All we can really do is live with whichever one seems better to us and hope SH5 is better. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

12-08-09, 06:31 PM	#3
Captain Birdseye Watch Officer Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sat behind my desk at BdU tapping away on my Enigma machine. Posts: 339 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Hi Mr Pinguin. GWX 3.0 Super Dooper Captain Birdseye meets Pugwash Edition GWX - Enhanced Damage Effects GWX - Integrated Orders GWX - No Medals on Crew GWX - Alternative Load Screen GWX - Vondos Ships Thomsens Ships 4.1 EDE-LRT 2.04 full patch Integrated Orders LRT 2.04 Full Patch Das Boot Clothes Bearded Faces Flags DBSM for SH3 Those are my mods. I was in a convoy attack today and it took three torps to sink a medium tanker. I used 1 magnetic smack bang under the centre of the ship, and two impact pistols. After reading Iron Coffins I scratched my head and thought "hmm something isn't right here". At least Iron Coffins has inspired me to get a little closer on the surface and not hide under the water!

12-08-09, 07:31 PM	#5
Captain Birdseye Watch Officer Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sat behind my desk at BdU tapping away on my Enigma machine. Posts: 339 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	With more common freighters, I find it takes 2 torps to sink her. Perhaps it's time to stop aiming bang on centre of the vessel and aim other places?

12-08-09, 08:13 PM	#7
Lt.Fillipidis Weps Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Veria, Greece Posts: 365 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Try aiming 1 meter below the keep depth, just in front of the engines. Otherwise, do what Weiss Penguin says. Fire one torpedo at the edge of the bow. In some extraordinary occasions, i managed to line up my boat to the merchant's course and fire one torpedo under the keel, at the edge of the stern. Thats a certain sink.

12-08-09, 08:36 PM	#8
Dissaray 中国水兵 Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 280 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	I know for war ships if you put yoru eels in under their guns you can cook off the magazines. That makes them sink in a hurry, not to mention it is a great light show at night. I don't know if the armed cargo ships have a magazine to hit or where it might be if they do though. For merchants and freighters I find one torpido sufficant most of the time, though ocasionaly I will have to pump a second into them. If after I feel the ship has taken enuf of my torpidos and still won't sink I will go to the tops and finish it wit the deck gun, weather and escort status permiting. One torpido under the keel and a hand full of deck gun rounds in below the water line and most will submit. One thing to make sure of is that your torpidos don't hit on top of eachother, the more holes you put in the ship the faster it will go down so aiming at diferant parts of the ship is a big pluss. Shots to the bow seem particularly effective as noted befor; when the bow starts to drop lower into the water the engens seem to push the ship down faster; a crash dive for them if you will.

12-09-09, 07:28 AM	#12
danlisa Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 5,499 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 1	Every ship in GWX will sink with 1 torpedo hit. That's if you know where to hit them. Other than that, a single torpedo will usually result in enough flooding to sink any vessel. Again, you need to know where to best cause this flooding. Either way, there are many cases where ships sank after one torp but there are also many cases where ships remained afloat and returned to port for repairs following multiple hits. __________________

12-09-09, 11:58 AM	#13
Ping Panther Lieutenant Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: the armpit of the Mid-Atlantic / Quadrant CA42 Posts: 262 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Trawlers are by far the most aggravating thing to take down. It must be the low weight displacement. They are hardly worth the half-dozen eels I pump into them!

12-09-09, 03:25 PM	#14
psykopatsak Medic Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Grid AO27 Posts: 161 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	ususally a tanker will be blown sky high by one torp straight in the side for me. otherwise, alot of ships take two or more torps to go down for me. then again, i use manual targeting with the OLC mod, so im glad i can hit the ships even (as im in late '44)

12-10-09, 02:08 PM	#15
Kapt Z Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: ...somewhere in the swamps of Jersey. Posts: 909 Downloads: 157 Uploads: 0	Anything larger than a coastal freighter or small merchantman get's two fish. Sometimes one is actually enough, but I prefer to use two just for good measure(especially in convoy attacks). As Sailor Steve said, try the Uboat.net site for lots of info on how slow and how fast some ships went down. These poor guys never had a chance- http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/2433.html