How much better (or worse) is SH4 than SH3?

MidnightTempest · 12-02-09, 11:58 PM

I discovered SH3 last week, my first ever submarine combat sim and I loved it, have been playing it non-stop ever since.

Now the question is should I upgrade to SH4? Besides slightly enhanced graphics, a focus on the Pacific Theater between US and Japan, are there any major reasons I should be playing SH4 instead?

What are the primary differences and modification between the two?

Are there any "must-have" MOD out for SH4 yet? Like the GWX 3 for SH3?

Or should I stick to SH3 and wait for SH5 to come out early next year?

So many questions, I know, but thanks in advance for answering them.

*NEW QUESTIONS:

-I was disappointed that in SH3 you can only vist the command room, the radiomen, the bridge and the targeting room. I wish you could roam the entire sub at your leisure and also observe how the men in the torpedo room, engine room, etc, work, and how they interact with eachother in resting quarters. Are these features implemented in SH4?

-Has the career mode improved in SH4 over SH3 in any way?

-Are there more interactive options during the "off duty" period after each patrol to visit the towns for relaxation?

Thanks again.

Laconic · 12-03-09, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightTempest

Now the question is should I upgrade to SH4? Besides slightly enhanced graphics, a focus on the Pacific Theater between US and Japan, are there any major reasons I should be playing SH4 instead?

You get to win the war.

magic452 · 12-03-09, 12:54 AM

I get SH4 gold edition ( u boat add on) it's cheep enough and will give you a much different feel.
Lots of interesting things happened in the PTO and with good mods
it will keep you interested.

TMO is my choice with and with out RSRD but RFB and FORTS are good as well. These are game play mods that change the way you play.

Check out this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=219

O! as someone mentioned you do get to "win the war".

Magic

Sailor Steve · 12-03-09, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightTempest

I discovered SH3 last week, my first ever submarine combat sim and I loved it, have been playing it non-stop ever since.

WELCOME ABOARD!

Quote:

Now the question is should I upgrade to SH4? Besides slightly enhanced graphics, a focus on the Pacific Theater between US and Japan, are there any major reasons I should be playing SH4 instead?

At this point it depends on what you want. SH3 with GWX, NYGM or WAC is still a wonderful game and a great sim. Also there is SH3 Commander, which works with all three supermods and is a vital part of the SH3 experience.

Quote:

What are the primary differences and modification between the two?

SH4 adds better graphics, a much better crew management system and a more stable game environment (it's less prone to crash). Also, it loads a whole lot faster. There are other improvements as well, but I'm not thinking of them offhand right now.

Quote:

Are there any "must-have" MOD out for SH4 yet? Like the GWX 3 for SH3?

Oh yes. Real Fleet Boat (RFB) and Trigger Maru Overhauled (TMO) are both fantastic. Choosing between them is like arguing between GWX and WAC. Both bring different changes to the table, and both work with the equally-great Run Silent, Run Deep Campaign, which completely rewrites all the convoy and task force movements to reflect the historical situation much more accurately.

Also if you get the Gold version you'll have the U-boat Missions add-on, which will then let you use the marvelous Operation Monsun supermod, which is the only big u-boat mod for SH4. Much fun to play.

Quote:

Or should I stick to SH3 and wait for SH5 to come out early next year?

You should read the stickied threads about the different mods and make that choice for yourself. You have a lot of good times still to come with SH3, but that would also be true of SH4, so I can't advise you further.

Rockin Robbins · 12-03-09, 09:12 AM

First of all SH4 is NOT an upgrade to SH3. It is merely a different game/simulation. They both have egregious flaws, like SH3's complete omission of wolfpacks, and both have their strong points. Neither can claim any right to the "most realistic" badge. In my opinion, if you like sub sims you should want to own both. Which one becomes your favorite depends on a lot of subjective factors. If you get SH4, make sure you get the Gold edition, which has the U-Boat Missions Add-on as part of the package. DO NOT buy plain vanilla SH4 for a bargain and then download the Direct2Drive UBM add-on. It has a one time use key. When you need to reinstall (and you will) you'll have to jump through hoops until the cows come home to try to get a key. Don't go there.

I'm a TMO guy. But as a beginner, even with Brand X experience, TMO will just kill you. Escort behavior is that much more intelligent. However, your main problem will be that before you can initiate any meaningful evasion moves, boat handling has to be second nature. Live with stock, GFO or RFB for awhile. With any configuration, you can load up my TMOkeys mod to give you a keyboard layout from TMO that is very much like SH3 and has many advantages over the stock SH4 layout, including your old friend F6 for one touch access to the attack screen.

I've done lots of testing on RFB. I love it, except for the nav map massacre. As long as you are zoomed back far enough that targets are rendered as diamonds, there they are. But if you zoom close enough that in the stock game they would be rendered as silhouettes, they simply vanish. Since when did standing too close to a chart table cause all your information to disappear? Just load up TMOplot and the great TMO plotting system will be substituted, which renders all contacts as a white position dot. Now you can zoom in and they're still there.

If you like Brand X on SH3, you'll love FOTRS, the Brand X of SH4. Lots of eye candy, new ship types, new HUD, TMO enemy AI (ratched back just a bit), this is a fine, fine mod if you have the computing power to run it. I don't have a state of the art computer and it still runs fine.

But which game you like better will depend on your personal background. SH3 and the Atlantik has the advantage here because the U-Boat Navy was part and parcel of the Nazi propoganda machine. Its achievements were trumpeted and glorified all over the world. Therefore, lots is known about it, especially in Europe. However, what is known is mostly fluff and movie (Das Boot) stuff, not having much resemblance to reality. The most important thing all that (mis)information generates though, is interest. Without interest, playing the game can be a much more tedious thing.

In contrast, the American submarine effort was top secret. There was very little knowledge of what they were doing during the war (this protected the lives of the submariners, something the Germans did not seem to value), but also kept the public, even the American public, from learning about and identifying with their submarine effort. After the war, the info kind of trickled out after the public lost interest. This resulted in very incomplete public awareness in the US and almost no knowledge of American submarine exploits overseas. It is very difficult for Europeans to identify with American World War II submarines. However, I contend that it is worth the effort.

gimpy117 · 12-03-09, 11:35 AM

alone it's a lil worse than sh3 with mods...i like it more

FIREWALL · 12-03-09, 11:43 AM

Both have their merits.

Since you already have SH-3.

Why not live a little and blow a whole $10.00 and get SH4 Gold.

Live dangerously.

Munchausen · 12-03-09, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightTempest

*NEW QUESTIONS:

-I was disappointed that in SH3 you can only vist the command room, the radiomen, the bridge and the targeting room. I wish you could roam the entire sub at your leisure and also observe how the men in the torpedo room, engine room, etc, work, and how they interact with eachother in resting quarters. Are these features implemented in SH4?

Nope. TMO has done a great job of placing crewmembers where they belong when your boat is surfaced or at battle stations. And the latest beta version is trying to add one or two additional rooms ... 'though I'm not sure Duci has gotten it to work yet. But, if you want to roam throughout your boat, you'll probably need to wait for SH5.

Quote:

-Has the career mode improved in SH4 over SH3 in any way?

The types of missions have increased. You can now rescue downed pilots, do photo recce of enemy ports, insert spies, etc.

Quote:

-Are there more interactive options during the "off duty" period after each patrol to visit the towns for relaxation?

Not really. "SH4 Commander" never made it past the planning stages ... so you can't even visit the local club. And a version of "FPS in Paris" is out of the question.

EgoApocalypse · 12-03-09, 06:52 PM

Both are excellent games.............especially SH3 with GWX.

As for SH4, with or without UBM is a great game too, also with many great mods to look out for.......

Both have issues, but hey what games dont.

Maybe at this rate the jump from SH3 the SH5 might be to much but then it could be a great step..........

Gotta stop this juggling of which is better.

tomoose · 12-03-09, 08:36 PM

I play SH4 (TMO 1.9) for my US Pacific fix (which SH3 simply cannot duplicate) and I play SH3 (GWX 3.0) for my U-boat Atlantic fix (which SH4 simply cannot duplicate, UBM add-on notwithstanding). Both games have their pros and cons. Both games have their own "feel" with regard to the theatres they are supposed to represent. Get both, mod 'em up to your desired configuration and enjoy both.

12-03-09, 09:34 PM

EgoApocalypse wrote:

Quote:

Gotta stop this juggling of which is better.

Nice idea but will never happen on an Internet forum. Too many posters think only of imposing their own (highly) subjective world-views and value judgements onto other's points of view. There is a world of difference between the statements "I prefer X" and an arbitrary "X is better than Y".

For what it's worth my highly subjective world-view and value judgement regarding submarine games is that SH3 and SH4 have their merits and shortcomings but I quite enjoy them both.

But then I still enjoy firing up AotD and the original Silent Hunter in the Dos Box from time to time.

********************************************
Insert profound quote from some dead guy here

12-02-09, 11:58 PM	#1
MidnightTempest Swabbie Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 7 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	How much better (or worse) is SH4 than SH3? I discovered SH3 last week, my first ever submarine combat sim and I loved it, have been playing it non-stop ever since. Now the question is should I upgrade to SH4? Besides slightly enhanced graphics, a focus on the Pacific Theater between US and Japan, are there any major reasons I should be playing SH4 instead? What are the primary differences and modification between the two? Are there any "must-have" MOD out for SH4 yet? Like the GWX 3 for SH3? Or should I stick to SH3 and wait for SH5 to come out early next year? So many questions, I know, but thanks in advance for answering them. NEW QUESTIONS: -I was disappointed that in SH3 you can only vist the command room, the radiomen, the bridge and the targeting room. I wish you could roam the entire sub at your leisure and also observe how the men in the torpedo room, engine room, etc, work, and how they interact with eachother in resting quarters. Are these features implemented in SH4? -Has the career mode improved in SH4 over SH3 in any way? -Are there more interactive options during the "off duty" period after each patrol to visit the towns for relaxation? Thanks again. Last edited by MidnightTempest; 12-03-09 at 06:01 AM.*

12-03-09, 12:54 AM	#3
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I get SH4 gold edition ( u boat add on) it's cheep enough and will give you a much different feel. Lots of interesting things happened in the PTO and with good mods it will keep you interested. TMO is my choice with and with out RSRD but RFB and FORTS are good as well. These are game play mods that change the way you play. Check out this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=219 O! as someone mentioned you do get to "win the war". Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l

12-03-09, 09:12 AM	#5
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	First of all SH4 is NOT an upgrade to SH3. It is merely a different game/simulation. They both have egregious flaws, like SH3's complete omission of wolfpacks, and both have their strong points. Neither can claim any right to the "most realistic" badge. In my opinion, if you like sub sims you should want to own both. Which one becomes your favorite depends on a lot of subjective factors. If you get SH4, make sure you get the Gold edition, which has the U-Boat Missions Add-on as part of the package. DO NOT buy plain vanilla SH4 for a bargain and then download the Direct2Drive UBM add-on. It has a one time use key. When you need to reinstall (and you will) you'll have to jump through hoops until the cows come home to try to get a key. Don't go there. I'm a TMO guy. But as a beginner, even with Brand X experience, TMO will just kill you. Escort behavior is that much more intelligent. However, your main problem will be that before you can initiate any meaningful evasion moves, boat handling has to be second nature. Live with stock, GFO or RFB for awhile. With any configuration, you can load up my TMOkeys mod to give you a keyboard layout from TMO that is very much like SH3 and has many advantages over the stock SH4 layout, including your old friend F6 for one touch access to the attack screen. I've done lots of testing on RFB. I love it, except for the nav map massacre. As long as you are zoomed back far enough that targets are rendered as diamonds, there they are. But if you zoom close enough that in the stock game they would be rendered as silhouettes, they simply vanish. Since when did standing too close to a chart table cause all your information to disappear? Just load up TMOplot and the great TMO plotting system will be substituted, which renders all contacts as a white position dot. Now you can zoom in and they're still there. If you like Brand X on SH3, you'll love FOTRS, the Brand X of SH4. Lots of eye candy, new ship types, new HUD, TMO enemy AI (ratched back just a bit), this is a fine, fine mod if you have the computing power to run it. I don't have a state of the art computer and it still runs fine. But which game you like better will depend on your personal background. SH3 and the Atlantik has the advantage here because the U-Boat Navy was part and parcel of the Nazi propoganda machine. Its achievements were trumpeted and glorified all over the world. Therefore, lots is known about it, especially in Europe. However, what is known is mostly fluff and movie (Das Boot) stuff, not having much resemblance to reality. The most important thing all that (mis)information generates though, is interest. Without interest, playing the game can be a much more tedious thing. In contrast, the American submarine effort was top secret. There was very little knowledge of what they were doing during the war (this protected the lives of the submariners, something the Germans did not seem to value), but also kept the public, even the American public, from learning about and identifying with their submarine effort. After the war, the info kind of trickled out after the public lost interest. This resulted in very incomplete public awareness in the US and almost no knowledge of American submarine exploits overseas. It is very difficult for Europeans to identify with American World War II submarines. However, I contend that it is worth the effort. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

12-03-09, 11:35 AM	#6
gimpy117 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 3,243 Downloads: 108 Uploads: 0	alone it's a lil worse than sh3 with mods...i like it more __________________ Member of the Subsim Zombie Army

12-03-09, 11:43 AM	#7
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Both have their merits. Since you already have SH-3. Why not live a little and blow a whole $10.00 and get SH4 Gold. Live dangerously. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

12-03-09, 06:52 PM	#9
EgoApocalypse Lieutenant Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The system might fail you. But dont fail youself................... Posts: 252 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	Both are excellent games.............especially SH3 with GWX. As for SH4, with or without UBM is a great game too, also with many great mods to look out for....... Both have issues, but hey what games dont. Maybe at this rate the jump from SH3 the SH5 might be to much but then it could be a great step.......... Gotta stop this juggling of which is better. __________________

12-03-09, 08:36 PM	#10
tomoose Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 930 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	Apples and oranges I play SH4 (TMO 1.9) for my US Pacific fix (which SH3 simply cannot duplicate) and I play SH3 (GWX 3.0) for my U-boat Atlantic fix (which SH4 simply cannot duplicate, UBM add-on notwithstanding). Both games have their pros and cons. Both games have their own "feel" with regard to the theatres they are supposed to represent. Get both, mod 'em up to your desired configuration and enjoy both.