The Boxer

[GoldenRivet]

Hypothetical Situation

Lets say you want to be a professional boxer.

Your only goal in life... your dream... is to become a world class fighter known to all around the globe. To take relentless beatings to the face, head and torso day in and day out all for the sake of the title.

and someone - we will just say God - told you:

"Ok... you will be one of the best fighters in your class, almost everyone in the boxing world will know your name, the glory and the money and the girls and the golden gloves... all yours... everything you ever wanted out of this dream of yours will come true...


... but you will die as a result of the lifestyle before you see your 26th birthday."

would you do it?

Francisco Rodriguez Dead at age 25

I have never understood why these men have the desire to climb into a boxing ring, or an MMA cage or any other arena and rather pointlessly beat the living crap out of one another's heads.

his fatal injury no doubt the result of repeated blows to the head.

why?

Sorry to boxing fans but i have never seen this as sport... and i have never understood it.

[Torplexed]

Boxing has been in slow decline for years. It's largest demographic is males 50+. There have been no charismatic champions for a long time. I doubt if most could name the current heavyweight champ without some quick research. There's still too much gambling and corruption. The field is crowded with too many weight classes. To see a major bout you have to pay $60 on cable and they're usually guys you've never heard of. Frankly, the best athletes having viewed the career of Muhammad Ali, avoid boxing because of the horrific physical toll it takes, so boxing doesn't get the best athletes anymore.

I don't boxing think will die out completely, but it'll probably become one of those more marginal sports like horse racing, if it hasn't already. The younger generation will probably gravitate towards gaudier fighting events like pro wrestling and the cage matches, marginalizing it even further.

[AVGWarhawk]

Boxing was over for me when Ali retired. He was the greatest and will remain so in my pea brain.

[Rockin Robbins]

We do it all the time. We sneer at the Japanese sumo wrestlers killing themselves by mutating their bodies in unhealthy ways.

Meanwhile, the nasty secret is that the average lifespan of your garden variety NFL lineman is about 45 years! Five years of glory--15 years of physical misery from the accumulated injuries and death at half a lifespan. That's just great! I daresay sumo wrestlers do better than that...

Yet, how much glory do we heap on these suicide warriors? How many healthy, physically capable kids are devoting all their dreams, thoughts and energies to attaining a position of death today?

Hell! We won't permit people to smoke because it MIGHT subtract five years from their lives, but we make heroes of people willingly sacrificing 30 to 45 years! Yay us!!!!

Need we talk about rock musicians?

[nikimcbee]

Thank god for shuffleboard!

I never really got interested in boxing. I remember all that fuss over tyson's first fight(?), the one where it was over in like 30 seconds TKO

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Boxing was over for me when Ali retired. He was the greatest and will remain so in my pea brain.

Agreed.....apart from the 'pea brain' part

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Agreed.....apart from the 'pea brain' part

I knew there was a reason I like ya! It is that quick wit! I watched Ali when I was a wee lad. Ali was the boxer's boxer.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

We do it all the time. We sneer at the Japanese sumo wrestlers killing themselves by mutating their bodies in unhealthy ways.

Meanwhile, the nasty secret is that the average lifespan of your garden variety NFL lineman is about 45 years! Five years of glory--15 years of physical misery from the accumulated injuries and death at half a lifespan. That's just great! I daresay sumo wrestlers do better than that...

Yet, how much glory do we heap on these suicide warriors? How many healthy, physically capable kids are devoting all their dreams, thoughts and energies to attaining a position of death today?

Hell! We won't permit people to smoke because it MIGHT subtract five years from their lives, but we make heroes of people willingly sacrificing 30 to 45 years! Yay us!!!!

Need we talk about rock musicians?

I can agree with a lot of that.

where we dont see eye to eye is the smoking thing.

I'm personally glad they have outlawed smoking in public places in my town.

its not the smoker's health i am worried about... its mine.

though i fully support one's right to smoke (i even enjoy a good cigar once every 18-24 months)

i cant say that i much appreciate cigarette smoke puffing around all over my family and myself while we are trying to enjoy dinner.

Cigar and Pipe smoke generally has a pleasing aroma and depending on the brand can be almost incense like - cigarette smoke on the other hand... most brands just have a rather unpleasant odor which stings the nostrils with a kind of bitterness.

if im hanging around in a bar, a strip club, on a camp site or on an aircraft tarmac - i certainly dont mind cigarette smoke as in those certain situations it is almost expected.

of course all of this is just my opinion - many might disagree.

but there is a time and a place for a smoke, and a classy restaurant at 6pm is not the place nor the time.

as far as football players go, it is a rather destructive lifestyle, and depending on the position you play you can walk away with broken limbs or a concussion... however injuries that could be considered "immediately life threatening" are exceptionally rare in the game of football.

in the cage or in the ring of boxing where the objective is to knock your opponent out cold by repeatedly crushing his face or skull - yeah - something about that seems most unwise.

when i played football i never walked onto a field expecting to get hurt, and the only injury i ever suffered was a cut about 1/4 inch long on my right hand after it made contact with the sharp edge of a chin strap button on an opposing player's helmet. several seasons of play - one "minor injury".

i think when a boxer inters the ring... everybody knows someone is going to get hurt in virtually every single match.

A lot of things happen when you take a forceful impact to the head... a lot of those things can kill you instantly... others can take a few days to kill you slowly.

[August]

Let's face it folks. Life is fatal.

What kind of world would this be where there are no boxers, sumo wrestlers or NFL linemen? Where nobody does anything that might shorten their lives?

But as GoldenRivet asks in his hypothetical situation: "would you do it?"
Well the truth is there are plenty of young guys out there who would make that choice and do it eagerly.

[nikimcbee]

here's more great info about boxers:
http://www.boxerworld.com/

[Rockin Robbins]

And that, August, is an excellent point. It's time that we agree that our lives are ours, to spend as we wish. The default position of man should be freedom, with restraints on that freedom only in case of injury to others.

Yes you may solve a problem by taking away someone's freedom to act in a way you believe is harmful to themselves. But the law of unintended consequences takes over when you do. For every intended consequence of that action there will be three unintended consequences. Two of them will be bad. In this case one of the unintended consequences is that you are granting others the right to deny YOUR freedom. And I can tell you that some of that denial will definitely be unjust. The solution is worse than the problem.

[nikimcbee]

okay, what was the thread about?





You're a pug! geddouttahere!


A famous boxer?

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by August

What kind of world would this be where there are no boxers, sumo wrestlers or NFL linemen?

Honestly, pretty much the same.

Concerning the original topic, as long as all the participants enter the activity knowing the risks, and are able to make reasonable efforts to mitigate the injuries; as long as they are fully and completely witting, it is their choice.

With boxers starting earlier in life though I wonder if the participants are truly witting to the risks?

Anyone remember the poem: Who killed Davey Moore, why an' what's the reason for?

[Rockin Robbins]

All of us make unknowing decisions that affect the rest of our lives. We have no right to make witting decisions. We do have an obligation not to induce others to make unwitting decisions when we posses the knowledge they need to make a better one. But if they want that knowledge and make a decision contrary to what we think wise, we STILL do not have the inherent natural right to deny their freedom to make a wrong decision so long as the only injured party is them.

Justice is a fallacy. Expectation of justice is insanity.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

We do it all the time. We sneer at the Japanese sumo wrestlers killing themselves by mutating their bodies in unhealthy ways.

Meanwhile, the nasty secret is that the average lifespan of your garden variety NFL lineman is about 45 years! Five years of glory--15 years of physical misery from the accumulated injuries and death at half a lifespan. That's just great! I daresay sumo wrestlers do better than that...

Yet, how much glory do we heap on these suicide warriors? How many healthy, physically capable kids are devoting all their dreams, thoughts and energies to attaining a position of death today?

Hell! We won't permit people to smoke because it MIGHT subtract five years from their lives, but we make heroes of people willingly sacrificing 30 to 45 years! Yay us!!!!

Need we talk about rock musicians?

Good points, didn't know that about the NFL linesmen. There is a saying here, "An athlete/sportsman never sees a day when he/she is healthy", meaning that they suffer throughout their careers and often forever after it.

However, there is this philosophical thought by Nietchze, "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger". If fear of sports makes people not do sports then they will destroy their healths through things like obesity, heart and coronary disease etc. which could be said to be even more damaging.

I've never boxed but I did play some football (soccer for americans) ice hockey and something called bandy in the juniors and with friends and in school. I remember one time when I went to the boards and was on the ice and saw these skates moving about an inch from my face and started thinking how smart it is.