Question for Germans

I have a friend who currently lives in Germany. He's been living there for less then a year and he gave me some thoughts on how he compares living there to living in Finland and Thailand where he has also lived. He told me that despite the notion that Germany is hailed as a technologically advanced nation, average everyday things are still surprisingly difficult and not as 'smooth' as they are in Finland or even in Thailand.

Now I wonder how the Germans here in GT feel about this, I'm not trying to diss you nation, on the contrary. My buddy could be just stupid. I'm just interested to know what it's like in Germany for a recent immigrant or a person who has moved there for work when it comes to everyday average things.

Edit. Ok a concrete example, when you guys go to the store, what do you pay with usually? Cash, bank card, credit card, cheque, something else maybe?

[Aramike]

Good topic, OTH. While I have nothing to really contribute (I haven't been to Germany in around a decade), I'm looking forward to the answers.

Perhaps you could answer the same questions about Finland???

Well personally it's pretty common to pay with a bank card or similar for groceries etc. here. There was a renewing of the bank card system that is still in progress, all bank cards must have the visa electron - thing in them. The electonic chip-thing, don't know the exact term. This means that one has to punch in the bank card code when using the card at the check-out desk, in some stores.

It used be just a swipe of the card and sign the receipt and that's it, made it easier but also more dangerous to have one's card stolen and misused by someone. Now it's a mix of just signing the receipt and having to punch in the code depending on the store. As if the thieves wouldn't know to use the card where only a signature is needed and just forge the signature.

There's talk of making the cell phone the 'wallet', that is the thing that you pay for things. Cell phone could also be the key to the car/apartment further lessening the amount of stuff in the pockets.

[Sledgehammer427]

it is a great idea, other than the fact cellphones are easy to break, easy to mess up, easy to steal, and, for some, hard to use. my dad has a hard time with cellphones because his fingers are too big.

[Aramike]

Well personally it's pretty common to pay with a bank card or similar for groceries etc. here. There was a renewing of the bank card system that is still in progress, all bank cards must have the visa electron - thing in them. The electonic chip-thing, don't know the exact term. This means that one has to punch in the bank card code when using the card at the check-out desk.

It used be just a swipe of the card and sign the receipt and that's it, made it easier but also more dangerous to have one's card stolen and misused by someone.

That's interesting, because I have been arguing with people for years that the "signature approval" system of credit/bank cards was pointless. It's not like your average cashier is enough of a handwriting expert to dilleneate between a real/fake signature anyway...

The PIN system works best, in my opinion - instant fraud protection and verification. So you all are WAY ahead of the US in that regard.

I've heard that cheque books are pretty common in the States, which I in a way understand because the USA is a big country where changes to the system would require huge national standards to be enforced.

I've also heard, from my buddy, that cheque books are also pretty common in Germany which surprises me a bit.

I would say that it's pretty important for Finns that things work smoothly, and being a relatively small nation it's relatively easy to standardise and optimise things although we have our share of bad city and other planning.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

I've heard that cheque books are pretty common in the States, which I in a way understand because the USA is a big country where changes to the system would require huge national standards to be enforced.

I've also heard, from my buddy, that cheque books are also pretty common in Germany which surprises me a bit.

Heh, only when it comes to middle aged women...

No one really uses checks anymore.

Actually the person I heard about the use of checks in the States was a woman and a bit of 'blonde' as in 'dumb', so could be that she used them cause it was easiest for her or something.

[Arclight]

Noone asked about Holland, so I feel I have to comment:

It's always been cash or PIN around here for as long as I can remember. 25 now, so it's been like that for at least 10-15 years. Never in my life have I used a cheque or even seen one.

Time for the rest of the world to catch up.

[Schroeder]

In Germany you can pay pretty much everywhere with your credit card or bank card (if that is the right term, EC Electronic Cash is the magical word here). You have to put it into the reading device and enter your PIN.

I don't know what other things your friend is missing here so it would be good to have more examples.
I have been to other countries in Europe, the US and Australia and didn't see much difference in every day technology.

[Lurchi]

Technologically advanced is only true in terms of Engineering (cars, ships, planes and such) = mostly everthing that has to do with production, machinery and its export.

In daily life however germans are pretty conservative adopting new things. Examples which come to my mind are Broadband Internet: The introduction of this has taken quite some time and i think the number is still pretty low compared to other countries.

Shares: This whole stock thing took a lot of time to become popular. Still mamy are very conservative buying these as many lost a lot of money with the popular Telecom flotation of shares which was their first contact and which went wrong.

Another thing are credit cards: These are not so widespread than in most other countries. Many of my friends don't have a real credit card (only standard electronic cash) and those who have credit cards usually have only one or two.

In supermarkets things are still mostly paid with money. Personally i do this too and only pay things with my Bank Card if the sum gets over 100 € or so. The credit card i use to fuel the car, pay internet bills or hotels abroad but not for daily life stuff.

[Shearwater]

Interesting example ... Yesterday I was having a couple of beers with my friends, and we also talked about credit cards (weird topic maybe, but it was a long night ). To make a long story short: Credit cards are really unusual in Germany, or at least that's my perception.
That doesn't mean that no one has credit cards - in fact, a lot of my friends do, but that's because they went abroad and required one. What we do have though are EC or Maestro cards, which aren't quite the same. Your card gets charged at once, not only at the end of the month as a lump sum, but of course you can pay instantly, provided that there's enough cash on your account (another difference).

I have to admit that I use my EC card for pretty much everything, including daily grocery shopping, which is rarely more than perhaps 4-5€.

Apart from that: Seems like this thread has developed into a 'credit cards in Germany thread' Could you give another example OneToughHerring? I think this is really interesting

Schroeder,

Well mainly it was the payment aspects, in grocery stores. I don't remember exactly what the problem was. Beer and liquer like Jägermeister was cheap though, or cheaper then in Finland.

Shearwater,

well it's not just negative stuff, there's a lot of positive too. The road system is good especially around bigger cities. Weather is good except that winter can be just as cold as in southern Finland.

[Skybird]

Most payment in Germany still is done via coins and notes.

Preferred plastic money here are so-called EC-cards, which you get with no additional fees (neither for the service nor per transaction) with your banking account. Often, stores have a minimum of 5 or 10 euros before you can pay with cards. That is due to transaction costs shops have to pay per transaction.

Euro-Checks have been sorted out many years ago. Travellers checkes mostly do not get accepted, and if so, in a store, it always means plenty of special activity by the salesmen, and calling superiors, and asking how the form is going to be filled. Better don't try! But almost nobody tries anyway.

Visa and Master are in use, too, but do not share that much acceptance as EC-cards, although they are not rare. Interestingly, especially huge shops, huge department stores, huge chain stores do not accept them. Charges that have to be payed per transaction are much higher than for EC-card, and the owner of the card in the end has to pay more, too. I consider using these cards to be stupid. you get ripped of - for being allowed to pay somebody else. Well, that you can have for free, can't you. I have mine only for rare occasions I need Visa for internet payments (which I avoid as much as possible). Considering the high yearly fee and the rare occasions i need it, my behavior of keeping that damn thing is very stupid, too.

In the past, I had worked in a department store for some years. I often chuckled when dealing with foreign tourists being upset when they payed with Visa or Matser, and I wanted their ID-card as well - to compare signatures. security awareness is something that is rudimentary in other countries, it seems. dutch topurists (plenty we have) were bewildered, British and Americans often became angry. Must be genetic

There were also people, almost always, complaining about the use of cards when standing in line, becasue it is much more time consuming than paying with coins and notes, even without tehcnical problems in the line, and people not remembering their PINs.

Personally, I prefer coins and notes, for the reaosns mentioned above, and for comparable reasons why I prefer a manual espresso machine to a full automat, and an analogue watch to a digital one:

it's more pleasing.

[Skybird]

Broadband: the EU yesterday published latest numbers, saying that Europe has more broadband users than any other part fo the world. within europe, germany is on 9th place, with 75% of households having internet access, but just 37% of these are broadband.

europe-wide, 56% of people have internet, of these 80% are broadband, says the EU.

There are also more users of cellphones in europe than there is european population. In this field, the EU claims global numerical leadership, too.

http://ec.europa.eu/deutschland/pres...es/8660_de.htm

I must say the lag in Germany concerning broadband maybe is because of absolutely bad and lousy services of private companies. I have had 5 internet providers so far, with 4 of them I ended in months of war, twice they stopped and gave in just before me pulling them to the courts. IMO, the IT branch is a very criminalised business, overpriced, but underserviced, and being extremely treacherous towards customers, using a maximum of deception, hiding, ignoring you, and blatant liying in order to wear your resistance down in case of conflict like in a war of attrition. Strange, but the much criticised pink giant, Telekom, is the company I now ended up with. Two technical problems in the line that I reported to them were solved within 90 minutes, they even called back to say it got sorted out, no telefon robots, no getting ignored, and competent servicemen being the first at the phone instead of incompetent desinterested call-centre-secretaries, and getting handed arund in circles. They are more expensive (I could have my telephone and broadband flat for half the money) , yes - but maybe better quality in service has it's price...!? Employees must get payed, you know. much of the cheaper rivals run bad business policies and employ personnell that is not up to the job. And that I say after many and long very bad experiences with them. - You will never hear me saying one positive word about private IT companies in Germany. I hate them and wish them plague and cholera.