U-boat pens like Das boot please!

oscar19681 · 08-18-09, 05:35 PM

When i first got sh-3 (Which i awaited so long to be released) i thought the whole dock look real detailed and great for a game of that time. the docks were pretty much alive but the u-boat pens didnt. What i would like to see this time is a busy sub pens a la das boot. Lots of people walking about torpedo,s being loaded. A german voice over the speakers inside the pens , repairs being performed. That would rock.

Rockin Robbins · 08-18-09, 05:46 PM

I don't want ANYTHING like Das Boot! Give me a U-Boat like a real U-Boat. Give me a sub pen like a real sub pen. Give me a crew like a real German U-Boat crew. I want no part of a fake "Hollywood treatment" movie.

I want a sonar man who knows when an enemy escort is approaching, and from what bearing. I want him to tell me before I raise the scope to dramatically see him coming from nowhere to run me down accompanied by bombastic music. I want a crew that doesn't cower in the corner and whimper as they ignobly suffer through the horrors of dehumanizing war. German sailors weren't a bunch of simpering wimps. They were competent professionals who fought fiercely.

I want reality honored, not lampooned.

oscar19681 · 08-18-09, 05:59 PM

Uhm , You consider Das boot hollywoodish? You do realize there isnt a u-boat movie as realistic as Das Boot do you? And that almost all the events in the movie actually took place?

paul_kingtiger · 08-18-09, 08:35 PM

Right, Das Boot isn't a Hollywood movie, it was made in Germany and carefully researched. Sure it isn't perfect, but it's pretty close and they went to great lengths to make it so.

The actors where trained to move around the boat like a real crew. The set was essentially perfect. There were no false walls so the camera can only shoot from a realistic angle.

I've read the boot, which was written by a real war correspondent who served on uboats. As always the book and film/series are different but there's nothing Hollywood about it.

If they make the game like Das Boot it's be a pretty amazing, and realistic game.

Sonarman · 08-18-09, 08:47 PM

Strangely enough Buchheim author of the Das Boot book disagrees with you (and most of us here) he was not very satisfied with the film and actually stated that he felt the film version of his work was indeed "a cross between a "cheap, shallow American action flick" and a "contemporary German propaganda newsreel from World War II".

Subnuts · 08-18-09, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonarman

Strangely enough Buchheim author of the Das Boot book disagrees with you (and most of us here) he was not very satisfied with the film and actually stated that he felt the film version of his work was indeed "a cross between a "cheap, shallow American action flick" and a "contemporary German propaganda newsreel from World War II".

Well, Buchheim was kind of a pretentious douche. An awesome pretentious douche, but still...

tater · 08-18-09, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subnuts

Well, Buchheim was kind of a pretentious douche. An awesome pretentious douche, but still...

True, and what does he know about u-boats that some internet dude posting from mom's basement doesn't know better!

:rotfl:

Akula4745 · 08-18-09, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonarman

Strangely enough Buchheim author of the Das Boot book disagrees with you (and most of us here) he was not very satisfied with the film and actually stated that he felt the film version of his work was indeed "a cross between a "cheap, shallow American action flick" and a "contemporary German propaganda newsreel from World War II".

Well that would validate RR's view of the film... still a good movie tho. But then I liked Star Wars too... so there is no accounting for taste.

Church SUBSIM · 08-19-09, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

True, and what does he know about u-boats that some internet dude posting from mom's basement doesn't know better!

:rotfl:

This is a insta-classic

HanSolo78 · 08-19-09, 01:28 AM

@threadstarter

Do you mean something like this for SH3?

Sailor Steve · 08-19-09, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonarman

Strangely enough Buchheim author of the Das Boot book disagrees with you (and most of us here) he was not very satisfied with the film and actually stated that he felt the film version of his work was indeed "a cross between a "cheap, shallow American action flick" and a "contemporary German propaganda newsreel from World War II".

On the other hand several u-boatmen were quoted in the '70s saying Buchheim's book was nothing like the war they experienced.

So everybody has an opinion. Mine agrees with RR's assessment in part: I found the men cowering in fear to be somewhat excessive, as soldiers and sailors tend to become stoic in bad situations. But then I thought the "All hands forward!" part was silly, until I read that the Germans actually did that. I do want to see the men acting like the warriors they were. Sure, some will panic, but the others will keep them in line.

paul_kingtiger · 08-19-09, 11:44 AM

You have to look at why Buchheim didn't like the film.

Taken from Wikipedia (so it must be true

)

Criticism by novel author Buchheim

Even though overwhelmed by the literally perfect technological accuracy of the film's set-design and port construction buildings, novel author Lothar-Günter Buchheim expressed great disappointment with Petersen's adaptation in a film review[3] published in 1981, especially with Petersen's aesthetic vision for the film and the way the plot and the effects are, according to him, overdone and clichéd by the adaptation, as well as the hysterical over-acting of the cast he called highly unrealistic while acknowledging the cast's acting talent in general. Buchheim, after several attempts for an American adaptation had failed, had provided a script detailing his own narrative, cinematographical and photographical ideas as soon as Petersen was chosen as new director that would have amounted in full to a complete 6-hour epic, however Petersen turned him down because at the time the producers were aiming for a 90-minute feature for international release. Ironically, today's Director's Cut of Das Boot amounts to over 200 minutes, and the complete TV version of the film to roughly 5 hours long.
Buchheim attacked specifically what he called Petersen's sacrificing of both realism and suspense in dialogue, narration and photography just for the sake of cheap dramatic thrills and action effects (for example, in reality one single exploding bolt of the boat's pressure hull would have been enough for the whole crew to worry about the U-boat very likely being crushed by water pressure, while Petersen has several bolts loosening in various scenes).
Uttering deep concerns about the end result, Buchheim felt that unlike his clearly anti-war novel the adaptation was "another re-glorification and re-mystification"[3] of German WWII U-boat war, German heroism and nationalism, and he called the film a cross between a "cheap, shallow American action flick"[3] and a "contemporary German propaganda newsreel from World War II".[3]

It appears Buchheim was reviewing the film cut, not the 5 hour TV series which was released later. Given that Buchheim himself wrote a 6 hour script and the 5 hour cut adds a lot of the suspense and boredom (for the crew) missing from the film, I think he would have been happier with the final result.
As for him saying the film glorified war, I can't agree with that at all. There's only a single character who ideologically approves of the war, and several, including the captain who speak openly against it. Nobody relishes the act of killing in the film. We see the crew enjoy themselves, but people who know they could die any day, tend to make the most of things. I've never fought in a war so I can't say what it's like, but this film didn't make we want to go off and be a submariner or think that it would be a cool thing to do.

I'd put it alongside Master and Commander in being realistic and authentic, but with a film plot because ultimately its entertainment not reality.

Sailor Steve · 08-19-09, 12:25 PM

I just reread the original post (always a good idea), and I must say that in that I agree completely. What he asked for was not everything that was in the movie, but simply for the sub pens to be more alive, with people doing things and talking to each other.

Nothing wrong with that request at all.

TarJak · 08-20-09, 12:33 AM

^^

Given that Das Boot and SH3 is the closest any of us is likely to get to experiencing life in the UBootewaffe I'd say this is a reasonable request.

If my sub is alive with crew I'd like the pen to be like that too. Not a silent mauseleum that you can't wait to get out of.

Iron Budokan · 08-20-09, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subnuts

Well, Buchheim was kind of a pretentious douche. An awesome pretentious douche, but still...

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

08-18-09, 05:35 PM	#1
oscar19681 Admiral Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: netherlands Posts: 2,020 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	U-boat pens like Das boot please! When i first got sh-3 (Which i awaited so long to be released) i thought the whole dock look real detailed and great for a game of that time. the docks were pretty much alive but the u-boat pens didnt. What i would like to see this time is a busy sub pens a la das boot. Lots of people walking about torpedo,s being loaded. A german voice over the speakers inside the pens , repairs being performed. That would rock. __________________ we live we die but death does not ends it. Jim Morrison 1943-1971

08-18-09, 05:46 PM	#2
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	I don't want ANYTHING like Das Boot! Give me a U-Boat like a real U-Boat. Give me a sub pen like a real sub pen. Give me a crew like a real German U-Boat crew. I want no part of a fake "Hollywood treatment" movie. I want a sonar man who knows when an enemy escort is approaching, and from what bearing. I want him to tell me before I raise the scope to dramatically see him coming from nowhere to run me down accompanied by bombastic music. I want a crew that doesn't cower in the corner and whimper as they ignobly suffer through the horrors of dehumanizing war. German sailors weren't a bunch of simpering wimps. They were competent professionals who fought fiercely. I want reality honored, not lampooned. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-18-09, 05:59 PM	#3
oscar19681 Admiral Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: netherlands Posts: 2,020 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	Uhm , You consider Das boot hollywoodish? You do realize there isnt a u-boat movie as realistic as Das Boot do you? And that almost all the events in the movie actually took place? __________________ we live we die but death does not ends it. Jim Morrison 1943-1971

08-18-09, 08:47 PM	#5
Sonarman The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ayr,Scotland,UK Posts: 1,392 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 0	Strangely enough Buchheim author of the Das Boot book disagrees with you (and most of us here) he was not very satisfied with the film and actually stated that he felt the film version of his work was indeed "a cross between a "cheap, shallow American action flick" and a "contemporary German propaganda newsreel from World War II". __________________ "The action is simulated...the excitement is real!" Microprose Simulation Software.

08-19-09, 01:28 AM	#10
HanSolo78 Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Austria Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 3	@threadstarter Do you mean something like this for SH3? __________________

08-18-09, 08:35 PM	#4
paul_kingtiger Watch Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York, NY, USA Posts: 29 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	Right, Das Boot isn't a Hollywood movie, it was made in Germany and carefully researched. Sure it isn't perfect, but it's pretty close and they went to great lengths to make it so. The actors where trained to move around the boat like a real crew. The set was essentially perfect. There were no false walls so the camera can only shoot from a realistic angle. I've read the boot, which was written by a real war correspondent who served on uboats. As always the book and film/series are different but there's nothing Hollywood about it. If they make the game like Das Boot it's be a pretty amazing, and realistic game.

08-19-09, 11:44 AM	#12
paul_kingtiger Watch Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York, NY, USA Posts: 29 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	You have to look at why Buchheim didn't like the film. Taken from Wikipedia (so it must be true ) Criticism by novel author Buchheim Even though overwhelmed by the literally perfect technological accuracy of the film's set-design and port construction buildings, novel author Lothar-Günter Buchheim expressed great disappointment with Petersen's adaptation in a film review[3] published in 1981, especially with Petersen's aesthetic vision for the film and the way the plot and the effects are, according to him, overdone and clichéd by the adaptation, as well as the hysterical over-acting of the cast he called highly unrealistic while acknowledging the cast's acting talent in general. Buchheim, after several attempts for an American adaptation had failed, had provided a script detailing his own narrative, cinematographical and photographical ideas as soon as Petersen was chosen as new director that would have amounted in full to a complete 6-hour epic, however Petersen turned him down because at the time the producers were aiming for a 90-minute feature for international release. Ironically, today's Director's Cut of Das Boot amounts to over 200 minutes, and the complete TV version of the film to roughly 5 hours long. Buchheim attacked specifically what he called Petersen's sacrificing of both realism and suspense in dialogue, narration and photography just for the sake of cheap dramatic thrills and action effects (for example, in reality one single exploding bolt of the boat's pressure hull would have been enough for the whole crew to worry about the U-boat very likely being crushed by water pressure, while Petersen has several bolts loosening in various scenes). Uttering deep concerns about the end result, Buchheim felt that unlike his clearly anti-war novel the adaptation was "another re-glorification and re-mystification"[3] of German WWII U-boat war, German heroism and nationalism, and he called the film a cross between a "cheap, shallow American action flick"[3] and a "contemporary German propaganda newsreel from World War II".[3] It appears Buchheim was reviewing the film cut, not the 5 hour TV series which was released later. Given that Buchheim himself wrote a 6 hour script and the 5 hour cut adds a lot of the suspense and boredom (for the crew) missing from the film, I think he would have been happier with the final result. As for him saying the film glorified war, I can't agree with that at all. There's only a single character who ideologically approves of the war, and several, including the captain who speak openly against it. Nobody relishes the act of killing in the film. We see the crew enjoy themselves, but people who know they could die any day, tend to make the most of things. I've never fought in a war so I can't say what it's like, but this film didn't make we want to go off and be a submariner or think that it would be a cool thing to do. I'd put it alongside Master and Commander in being realistic and authentic, but with a film plot because ultimately its entertainment not reality.

08-19-09, 12:25 PM	#13
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I just reread the original post (always a good idea), and I must say that in that I agree completely. What he asked for was not everything that was in the movie, but simply for the sub pens to be more alive, with people doing things and talking to each other. Nothing wrong with that request at all. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

08-20-09, 12:33 AM	#14
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	^^ Given that Das Boot and SH3 is the closest any of us is likely to get to experiencing life in the UBootewaffe I'd say this is a reasonable request. If my sub is alive with crew I'd like the pen to be like that too. Not a silent mauseleum that you can't wait to get out of.