DC Metro asleep at the switch

[SteamWake]

Yesterday there was a video of a train driver texting while on the route.

Today a video surfaces of a train driver nodding off while at the helm.

Note that these were both before the crash of the blue line.

"We want to know exactly what's going on," Taubenkibel said. "If people see something they don't feel is safe please let us know."

Soo... in other words the management doesent know what is going on? The public has to tell them? I think he may wish to rephrase that.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,531040,00.html

[Max2147]

So you think that Metro should install cameras to watch their drivers' moves?

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Max2147

So you think that Metro should install cameras to watch their drivers' moves?

No I would expect them to hire competient concienous drivers. But I assume they dont have the moneys for that so they settle for employees that are neither.

Another 'argument' is that the automated systems breed content. But I dont want to digress.

However there is no excuse for a driver with peoples lives in their hands to act like this. To put it bluntly it's selfish.

If your so tired, bored, hung over, what ever for gods sake dont go to work that day. Its not like some slob that falls asleep at his desk.

Managament not being aware of this type of behaviour are either ignoant, duped, or looking the other way. My money is on the latter.

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

No I would expect them to hire competient concienous drivers. But I assume they dont have the moneys for that so they settle for employees that are neither.

Another 'argument' is that the automated systems breed content. But I dont want to digress.

However there is no excuse for a driver with peoples lives in their hands to act like this. To put it bluntly it's selfish.

If your so tired, bored, hung over, what ever for gods sake dont go to work that day. Its not like some slob that falls asleep at his desk.

Managament not being aware of this type of behaviour are either ignoant, duped, or looking the other way. My money is on the latter.

I think Metro driver jobs actually pay pretty well, considering how little the drivers actually do.

I think your point about the automated system is actually pretty accurate. All the drivers have to do is close the doors and announce the next stop. If I had to do that all day, I'd probably fall asleep too. The Metro system is in a sort of gap as far as automation - it's too automated to keep the drivers active, but it's not automated enough to make the drivers redundant (a la the London DLR).

As we covered in a previous thread, Metro's management is a bunch of elected officials who have no experience or competence when it comes to running a mass transit system.

If I were in charge, I'd make the investment and make the system fully automated. However, the current technology that Metro uses isn't reliable enough for that. It seems that an automation fault caused the Red Line crash, and I know there was one incident where a couple drivers had to hit the emergency brakes to prevent a collision in the tunnel under the Potomac. Of course, when the drivers do their job and save lives, it doesn't make the headlines.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Max2147

As we covered in a previous thread, Metro's management is a bunch of elected officials who have no experience or competence when it comes to running a mass transit system.
.

As they say good enough for goverment work. This is my point exactly.

[Oberon]

Don't they have a vigilence alarm?

In the UK, there's a little bleeper that goes off every minute or so and if the driver doesn't cancel it then the train is brought to a halt, likewise there's the 'Dead Mans Handle' which needs constant pressure on it otherwise it activates the brakes, although if it's foot operated then I think some drivers put their bag on it to pin it down.
Of course, this won't stop drivers using their mobiles, for that you'd need either cameras or hidden inspectors.

Either which way, it does sound like the Metro needs a bit of a shake-up.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Don't they have a vigilence alarm?

In the UK, there's a little bleeper that goes off every minute or so and if the driver doesn't cancel it then the train is brought to a halt, likewise there's the 'Dead Mans Handle' which needs constant pressure on it otherwise it activates the brakes, although if it's foot operated then I think some drivers put their bag on it to pin it down.
Of course, this won't stop drivers using their mobiles, for that you'd need either cameras or hidden inspectors.

Either which way, it does sound like the Metro needs a bit of a shake-up.

The bleepers go off as you approach signals. Kind of a reminder to take the time to actually look at the signal.

In fact if you enter a 'restricted' section a buzzer goes off and keeps going off till you silence it. If it is not silenced the train is stopped automatically.

US rails do not use this system. They believe and rightfully so in my opinion that they dont need a gizmo to make sure the drivers awake. I guess I am wrong.

As to the dead mans brake, it is / was not uncommon to find a tool box atop them to hold them down

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

The bleepers go off as you approach signals. Kind of a reminder to take the time to actually look at the signal.

In fact if you enter a 'restricted' section a buzzer goes off and keeps going off till you silence it. If it is not silenced the train is stopped automatically.

US rails do not use this system. They believe and rightfully so in my opinion that they dont need a gizmo to make sure the drivers awake. I guess I am wrong.

As to the dead mans brake, it is / was not uncommon to find a tool box atop them to hold them down

Ah yes, I recognise the system, we call it AWS. It could be that because it's a metro service they deign it not worthy to install the vigilence systems. I'm not a hundred percent sure but I think that on our underground (well, London at least) there isn't a AWS system per se, but the red signals do have tripcocks on them so that if a train should happen to pass it the emergancy brakes are automatically tripped, the mainline services have a similar thing now called TPWS which activates the emergancy brakes if a train approaches a speed restriction at too high a speed or SPADs.
It's very much a trial and error thing, regrettably, it's taken the British network several nasty crashes (Moorgate in particular comes to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorgate_tube_crash ) before we have got the systems we have, and other nations have even better systems but even they are not fool-proof.
I do hope that they can implement some kind of vigilence system in the DC Metro though, but at the end of the day, the direction must come from the top. Do the US drivers have unions? If so, how much sway do they hold? They're not exactly the best answer, but sometimes if you want the idiots who write the cheques to listen, they're additional firepower to help.

[Task Force]

I believe on us trains(well atleast on the major railways.) we have what is called an alerter.

If the controls ant moved within 25 seconds the trains emergency brakes go on and the train stops, and the driver has to reset it.

[Max2147]

Maybe Metro could use these....

About 3:20 in.

[bookworm_020]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Don't they have a vigilence alarm?

In the UK, there's a little bleeper that goes off every minute or so and if the driver doesn't cancel it then the train is brought to a halt, likewise there's the 'Dead Mans Handle' which needs constant pressure on it otherwise it activates the brakes, although if it's foot operated then I think some drivers put their bag on it to pin it down.
Of course, this won't stop drivers using their mobiles, for that you'd need either cameras or hidden inspectors.

Either which way, it does sound like the Metro needs a bit of a shake-up.

All trains here in Sydney Australia are fitted with a deadman's handle/foot peddal. If the driver removes his had or foot (depending on what type of train) the brakes will apply bring the train to a halt. There is also a vigilance system that will start to flash if no controls have been used for 30 seconds, after another five a bell goes off, then it applies the brakes and will not let the driver move the train for a minute.

There are some new systems being looked at as well.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

The bleepers go off as you approach signals. Kind of a reminder to take the time to actually look at the signal.

In fact if you enter a 'restricted' section a buzzer goes off and keeps going off till you silence it. If it is not silenced the train is stopped automatically.

US rails do not use this system. They believe and rightfully so in my opinion that they dont need a gizmo to make sure the drivers awake. I guess I am wrong.

As to the dead mans brake, it is / was not uncommon to find a tool box atop them to hold them down

Wait.... what? U.S locomotives are required to have alerters that go off at random intervals(15 seconds to about a minute and a half or so). If you don't silence them, they force the entire train to engage emergency brakes. Putting something atop the button doesn't help either, because that will put the train into emergency as well.
The preferred method of defeating them is to use a length of chain with a weighted ball and hook on the end of it that can be easily obtained from one of the carman shops. Affix it to the air pipes on top of the cab if you have a horizontal control stand, or simply cinch the radio down on top of the fixed end if you have a vertical control stand. The constant swaying of the train drags the pendulum over the button repeatedly, and you don't have to worry about the alerter any more......usually. The catch is that this method is extremely illegal and doesn't work in all cab configurations.

Personally, I think alerters are a a pain in the ass and don't do much good.
They have a habit of going off at inopportune moments, and have a tendency to break and sound the alarm all the time, which is very annoying and requires that you keep a constant eye on the light display for the device. Even worse, it doesn't take long for engineers to develop an "alerter reflex". I have seen fellow engineers dozing comfortably at the controls whilst habitually tapping the alerter with their foot or knee.
Another favorite trick is to simply put the conductor at the control stand while the engineer takes a nap in the conductor's seat, a tactic favored by guys who run on long, flat, boring stretches of track where complex train handling is not required.

There are a lot of safety-related issues like this on the railroad, and they stem from a variety of causes, but I will not go in-depth here. Sufficed to say, most of them have a lot to do with union labor and micromanagement by the FRA.

[SteamWake]

All the bells and whistles aside I think the responsiblity falls squarely in the lap of the upper management. Maybe they need and alerter.