Wrecks of the World: Hidden Risks of the Deep

PappyCain · 07-02-09, 04:26 PM

Washington, DC: The American Salvage Association (ASA), supported by the Association of Diving Contractors International (ADCI), International Salvage Union (ISU), Marine Technology Society (MTS), North American Marine Environmental Protection Association (NAMEPA), Spill Control Association of America (SCAA), and the World Ocean Council (WOC), will sponsor a conference, “Wrecks of the World: Hidden Risks of the Deep (WOW)” on Wednesday, September 9, 2009 at the Maritime Institute of Technology and Graduate Studies (MITAGS) in the Washington, DC area (Linthicum Heights, MD) USA.

The conference, part of the ASA-supported Wreck Oil Removal Program (WORP), will explore the myriad issues (pollution threat, impact modeling, risk assessment, oil removal and remediation, implications to the environment, legal, insurance and funding issues, next steps) related to the more than 8,500 sunken vessels in the world, many of them World War II-era.

By way of background, these wrecks may contain as much as 20 million tons of oil and other hazardous materials. Sporadic or continuous leakages or potential sudden massive spillages from these wrecks pose a continual risk across the globe. The problem of potentially-polluting wrecks has long been discussed and recent incidents around the world have caused government agencies and responsible parties to look proactively at preventing catastrophic oil and other chemical releases from long submerged shipwrecks.

The risk of oil and other hazardous materials seeping out of sunken shipwrecks is growing yearly, and the likelihood of leakage or even a massive spill occurring increases, as do the potential costs. Taking a proactive rather than a reactive approach to mitigating this risk will save not only dollars in response costs, but also reduce the threat of environmental and socioeconomic damages.

From the viewpoint of environmental and economic impacts, there is little difference between oil spilling from a sunken vessel and oil spilling from a modern day vessel casualty, with the exception that, while there is no way to predict the location or timing of the next major oil spill, potentially-polluting wreck sites are known and the probability of a spill event is quantifiable or even inevitable. There is ample evidence that there are a large number of wrecks in U.S. coastal waters that are spills waiting to happen.

Responses to continuous oil leakage episodes that appear as “mystery spills” or to a massive oil release from one or more of these wrecks will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, probably significantly more. The response costs and damages will be significantly greater when the responses occur on a reactive basis than the costs that would be associated with planned and controlled proac.ve oil removal operations. Implementing WORP will mitigate damage and costs before there is an emergency and the oil is in the water and on shorelines.

gordonmull · 07-02-09, 05:46 PM

Interesting. And something I'd never really thought of before.

Really, instead of letting the oil and other hazardous substances escape to the environment there's two beneficial strategies here. One, as Papa Smurf points out, is pollution prevention but in this world of ever-depleting resources we should also be thinking about exploiting those resources in the face of virgin material use.

I'd be really interested to learn what other haz substances are sitting down on the ocean floor that we actually do know about. The u-boat carrying mercury will be familiar to most folks who frequent these pages but what else is lurking down there?

Ford Prefect · 07-02-09, 06:30 PM

Thankfully pollution and the effects of global climate change aren't modeled in SH3 else I might start feeling guilting about all those sinkings.

When can we expect the massive oil slick mod, complete with black seagulls?

Torplexed · 07-02-09, 07:39 PM

It's always been my understanding that oil trapped in ships sunk in deep water turns almost to a solid in the frigid temperatures. Not much chance of it leaking in that state.

Ford Prefect · 07-02-09, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

It's always been my understanding that oil trapped in ships sunk in deep water turns almost to a solid in the frigid temperatures. Not much chance of it leaking in that state.

There's more than just crude oil down there, plus not all the sinkings were at extreme depth, there's plenty of ships sunk in shallows around islands in the pacific from the brutal fighting during WWII. Not to mention places like the north sea which isn't very deep either. Even the stuff which is at extreme depth in a near solid state won't remain contained forever, eventually the bulkheads holding it in will rot and it will be able to get out. Granted it will take some time but it will happen. Once it gets out of the ship, oil is lighter than water so up it comes and our great grandchildren are left cleaning up the mess from a war fought by our grandfathers. This polluted, pockmarked and war torn planet is a hell of a heirloom to leave behind!

PappyCain · 07-02-09, 11:16 PM

http://www.oilspillresponse.com/pdf/...%20Vessels.pdf

S'
PC

Lt.Fillipidis · 07-03-09, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

It's always been my understanding that oil trapped in ships sunk in deep water turns almost to a solid in the frigid temperatures. Not much chance of it leaking in that state.

I agree to that.
Looks like the yankees are trying to find the lost nazi gold in uboats.

Ford Prefect · 07-03-09, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt.Fillipidis

I agree to that.
Looks like the yankees are trying to find the lost nazi gold in uboats.

They should be looking in Switzerland.

I spent a couple of years living in northern norway and they always joked about how you could always tell if a tourist was german, they all carry shovels/picks and their grandad's war maps, looking for gold left behind.

Schroeder · 07-03-09, 06:45 AM

[sarcasm]
I wonder why you make such a fuss about it. Go to the GT Forum. There you will learn that pollution isn't bad for the planet.
[/sarcasm]

Bushwhacker · 07-03-09, 07:24 AM

After the war the allies found some 300 000 tons of chemical warfare munitions and agents in the defeated Germany. It was decided that the most practical method to dispose of this was to sink it in the sea....
British and american method was loading old and damaged ships (including cruisers Leipzig and Berlin) with chemicals and sink them in designated areas, while the Russians useed the same ships several times and simply discharged the cargo over wide areas...
Due to unfortunate mishaps in British and American archives the number of ships sunk, as well as positions and cargo, are a little bit unclear...
Somewhere between 45 and 60 ships with about 300 000 tons of tabun, sarin, fosgen, mustardgas and so on are located on the seabed in the Baltic and North Sea.
So dont go to close to the seafloor....

Ford Prefect · 07-03-09, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

After the war the allies found some 300 000 tons of chemical warfare munitions and agents in the defeated Germany. It was decided that the most practical method to dispose of this was to sink it in the sea....
British and american method was loading old and damaged ships (including cruisers Leipzig and Berlin) with chemicals and sink them in designated areas, while the Russians useed the same ships several times and simply discharged the cargo over wide areas...
Due to unfortunate mishaps in British and American archives the number of ships sunk, as well as positions and cargo, are a little bit unclear...
Somewhere between 45 and 60 ships with about 300 000 tons of tabun, sarin, fosgen, mustardgas and so on are located on the seabed in the Baltic and North Sea.
So dont go to close to the seafloor....

Not sure about the rest but isn't tabun neutralised by the sea water? plus it will have degraded to nothing by now any way.

johan_d · 07-03-09, 03:10 PM

They for sure love to abbreviate things in the US(sic).
The most funny part is that the abbr. never return in the same story, so why the bleep abbr. them.. lol!

bookworm_020 · 07-04-09, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Somewhere between 45 and 60 ships with about 300 000 tons of tabun, sarin, fosgen, mustardgas and so on are located on the seabed in the Baltic and North Sea.

I believe there is a spot off the Canadian cost where they dumped tons of Mustard gas and other nasties after the war had finished. Plenty of live ammo as well tossed over the side as well. (here in Australia as well)

As for the oil. there have been some programs to deal with this (The Royal Oak is one that comes to mind)

_Seth_ · 07-04-09, 05:57 PM

Moving this to the GT-forum.

Buddahaid · 07-04-09, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan_d

They for sure love to abbreviate things in the US(sic).
The most funny part is that the abbr. never return in the same story, so why the bleep abbr. them.. lol!

I don't know what.....
And that's the....

Budd....

07-02-09, 04:26 PM	#1
PappyCain Samurai Navy Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: on the Atlantic Ocean Posts: 559 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Wrecks of the World: Hidden Risks of the Deep Washington, DC: The American Salvage Association (ASA), supported by the Association of Diving Contractors International (ADCI), International Salvage Union (ISU), Marine Technology Society (MTS), North American Marine Environmental Protection Association (NAMEPA), Spill Control Association of America (SCAA), and the World Ocean Council (WOC), will sponsor a conference, “Wrecks of the World: Hidden Risks of the Deep (WOW)” on Wednesday, September 9, 2009 at the Maritime Institute of Technology and Graduate Studies (MITAGS) in the Washington, DC area (Linthicum Heights, MD) USA. The conference, part of the ASA-supported Wreck Oil Removal Program (WORP), will explore the myriad issues (pollution threat, impact modeling, risk assessment, oil removal and remediation, implications to the environment, legal, insurance and funding issues, next steps) related to the more than 8,500 sunken vessels in the world, many of them World War II-era. By way of background, these wrecks may contain as much as 20 million tons of oil and other hazardous materials. Sporadic or continuous leakages or potential sudden massive spillages from these wrecks pose a continual risk across the globe. The problem of potentially-polluting wrecks has long been discussed and recent incidents around the world have caused government agencies and responsible parties to look proactively at preventing catastrophic oil and other chemical releases from long submerged shipwrecks. The risk of oil and other hazardous materials seeping out of sunken shipwrecks is growing yearly, and the likelihood of leakage or even a massive spill occurring increases, as do the potential costs. Taking a proactive rather than a reactive approach to mitigating this risk will save not only dollars in response costs, but also reduce the threat of environmental and socioeconomic damages. From the viewpoint of environmental and economic impacts, there is little difference between oil spilling from a sunken vessel and oil spilling from a modern day vessel casualty, with the exception that, while there is no way to predict the location or timing of the next major oil spill, potentially-polluting wreck sites are known and the probability of a spill event is quantifiable or even inevitable. There is ample evidence that there are a large number of wrecks in U.S. coastal waters that are spills waiting to happen. Responses to continuous oil leakage episodes that appear as “mystery spills” or to a massive oil release from one or more of these wrecks will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, probably significantly more. The response costs and damages will be significantly greater when the responses occur on a reactive basis than the costs that would be associated with planned and controlled proac.ve oil removal operations. Implementing WORP will mitigate damage and costs before there is an emergency and the oil is in the water and on shorelines.

07-02-09, 11:16 PM	#6
PappyCain Samurai Navy Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: on the Atlantic Ocean Posts: 559 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	http://www.oilspillresponse.com/pdf/...%20Vessels.pdf S' PC Last edited by PappyCain; 07-03-09 at 07:10 AM.

07-03-09, 06:45 AM	#9
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	[sarcasm] I wonder why you make such a fuss about it. Go to the GT Forum. There you will learn that pollution isn't bad for the planet. [/sarcasm] __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

07-03-09, 07:24 AM	#10
Bushwhacker Swabbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 9 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	wrecks of the world After the war the allies found some 300 000 tons of chemical warfare munitions and agents in the defeated Germany. It was decided that the most practical method to dispose of this was to sink it in the sea.... British and american method was loading old and damaged ships (including cruisers Leipzig and Berlin) with chemicals and sink them in designated areas, while the Russians useed the same ships several times and simply discharged the cargo over wide areas... Due to unfortunate mishaps in British and American archives the number of ships sunk, as well as positions and cargo, are a little bit unclear... Somewhere between 45 and 60 ships with about 300 000 tons of tabun, sarin, fosgen, mustardgas and so on are located on the seabed in the Baltic and North Sea. So dont go to close to the seafloor....

07-04-09, 05:57 PM	#14
_Seth_ Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: In Tromsoe, @Tirpitz' final resting place.. Posts: 3,277 Downloads: 94 Uploads: 0	Moving this to the GT-forum. __________________

07-02-09, 05:46 PM	#2
gordonmull Lieutenant Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 269 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Interesting. And something I'd never really thought of before. Really, instead of letting the oil and other hazardous substances escape to the environment there's two beneficial strategies here. One, as Papa Smurf points out, is pollution prevention but in this world of ever-depleting resources we should also be thinking about exploiting those resources in the face of virgin material use. I'd be really interested to learn what other haz substances are sitting down on the ocean floor that we actually do know about. The u-boat carrying mercury will be familiar to most folks who frequent these pages but what else is lurking down there?

07-02-09, 06:30 PM	#3
Ford Prefect Planesman Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire Posts: 184 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Thankfully pollution and the effects of global climate change aren't modeled in SH3 else I might start feeling guilting about all those sinkings. When can we expect the massive oil slick mod, complete with black seagulls?

07-02-09, 07:39 PM	#4
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	It's always been my understanding that oil trapped in ships sunk in deep water turns almost to a solid in the frigid temperatures. Not much chance of it leaking in that state.

07-03-09, 03:10 PM	#12
johan_d Samurai Navy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 556 Downloads: 113 Uploads: 1	They for sure love to abbreviate things in the US(sic). The most funny part is that the abbr. never return in the same story, so why the bleep abbr. them.. lol!